[WarInEur] Allied Production 39 to 40 CW OOB

[Chuck Sutherland]

 The French Army is over modeled if anything, their movement rates should be 2 or 3 as they were slow as tank out of gas in their command control systems. They might have been ok tactically at times but operationally they were out of their league. Had they not fallen for the trap they would still have been fixed and broken up. They allies had not solved the mobility of the blitz yet, they had more and better tanks but their combined arms was almost non-existent and their command and control was about the same. They were a day late and a dollar short to almost every critical battle.

As for building Panzer's, they are also under modeled and with the quick step defense and the over modeled anti tank effects the Germans are better off having as many 6-5 as they can for attrition attacks on the Russians instead of building out the armor.

The Germans air pool can be fixed by fixing the Russian production to up the number of air by double. That will attrition the Germans.

If anything the Frogs need to be 2 strength units not 4.

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From: warineur-bounces at mailman.halisp.net [mailto:warineur-bounces at mailman.halisp.net] On Behalf Of John Pace
Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2009 1:02 PM
To: warineur at mailman.halisp.net
Subject: Re: [WarInEur] Allied Production 39 to 40 CW OOB

Please Henry, I am definitely far from a panzer pusher.  My personal belief, Hitler was dammed lucky in 1940 that the Allies fell into a trap.  For the germans to win their historic 7 week campaign, the allies would have to play by the historic trap and leave the Sedan backdoor open in the Ardensse while they pile into Belgium, expecting a replay of WWI.  Like all WWII games, the French Army is unhistorical weakened to ensure France falls in 1940, otherwise there is no 1941 Russian invasion, and the Hitler European tour so beloved by every WWII game.

My grip is with the German production.  Right nor wrong, IMHO, the point about Allied production personnel points is that unfortunately it encourages the Germans to totally abandon the UBoat war and produce panzers instead.  Churchill says that the UBoat war was the one thing that gave him nightmares.

There are so many gamy aspect of even the original SPI game that needs to be addressed.  One example is the Axis abandonment of Libya. Even if the CW occupies Tripoli in 1940 as a result, there is nothing he can do until 1942 when a US-lead invasion of Vichy North Africa leads to Sardinia and Scilly within 12 hexes of allied sea-invasion.  I would like, if Tripoli is allied controlled, then the CW be able to convert Vichy units into Free French using CW IR/MR and be able to invade Vichy North Africa without US divisions before 1942.

Another aspect is the strategic airwar, allied escorts vs german interceptors.  The Allies are limited to transferring a fixed number of AP to allied escorts (and when they are shot down, it is a full rebuild at 2Pers & 8Manuf rather than 4Manuf rebuild).  With players being able to hold back their AP by refusing to submit them to slaughter in inferior air superiorty situation. The Germans can ensure they have an unhistoric large pool of AP from which they can draw 25%-50% (or more) into interceptors, ensuring that they can absolutely slaughter the out-numbered allied escorts and bombers.

As to Allied production, it is definitely a step in the right direction, everybody have their own views on it (and all other aspects of the game).  Maybe, we could reduce the effect on CW manufacturing points, and introduce an impact on CW personnel points, bringing CW Manuf Points more in line with Personnel Points.  If the Germans abandon the UBoat war, then the CW will have INCREASED Personnel Points, reflecting increased CW mobilization because the civilian population are more supportive of the war against Hitler.  Thus, the CW would have enough personnel points to utilize those otherwise excess useless manufacturing points.

Leading to an EVEN STRONGER CW force if the Germans decide more panzers against Russia instead of UBoats against Britain.

Personally, even in 1970s, I never, never, absolutely never used the Allied reinforcement track.  Instead from the original SPI player notes, I used the allied production cost list to convert those otherwise useless excess APs into more useful units.


Of course, we must be careful not to upset game balance.  Unfortunately, in the current game I find the Germans need those extra panzers (with 10 attack strength) to defeat the French in the 1940 slugfest.  Maybe we could reduce the number of rivers in France, which my French army defends behind to double their strength, and increase the French to 4-4 inf divs, which will encourage the French not to immediately abandon Northern France and the Beligum border.

John


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