[WarInEur] French Neutrality

[Kent & Sue Haunschild]

Your comment presumes that Allies are no better deployed and execute the Dyle Plan.  Those are pretty much requirements for a 8 turn takedown.
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Richard Wilson 
  To: WarInEur at mailman.halisp.net 
  Sent: Monday, February 02, 2009 6:09 PM
  Subject: Re: [WarInEur] French Neutrality


  I agree, but I think you should only get to roll for Vichy if the German victory is swift and decisive-a ground unit in supply adjacent to Paris within 8 turns of attacking across the French/Belgian/Dutch border.

  Karl Gaarsoe wrote: 
          Unlikely.  Once they were "in" the war (9/39), I just can't see the French pulling out like that.  

          The Allied war plan called for a gradual build up (assuming a repeat of  the first iteration) and eventual offensive action into the Reich - after the British were fully mobilized, sometime in 1941.  

          I just don't see the economic model supporting the kind of major revisions you advocate.  The British limitations were as much the result of (Domestic British) political decisions made in the mid-thirties, to build up the RAF and RN instead of the Army, which was "happy" with it's colonial policing role.  The equipment just was not built, nor the infrastructure to support a larger "continental commitment"  

           The French were stuck with whatever the British could scrape together in 1939/40;  I just can't see them suddenly making nice with the demonstrably hostile/dangerous traditional enemy.  (1870, 1914)...

          Unless the French Army was decisively beaten in the field.  IE, when the Germans are adjacent to Paris.  And then you get Vichy, even in 1942 (You have seen the movie Casablanca?)  the ambiguity of that government was obvious.

          Karl Gaarsoe


          --- On Sat, 1/31/09, Noel & Pamela <nbpfemu at bigpond.com> wrote:

            From: Noel & Pamela <nbpfemu at bigpond.com>
            Subject: RE: [WarInEur] French Neutrality
            To: WarInEur at mailman.halisp.net
            Date: Saturday, January 31, 2009, 9:11 PM


            You misunderstand.  No Vichy until France is beaten was my assumption.  If no substantial British involvement, France pulls out of the war even before a shot is fired.  If the Brits have supported France to the point where the Germs are two hexes from Paris, who can blame them for cutting and running to try and save their forces.


            regards, 
            Noel 

              -----Original Message-----
              From: warineur-bounces at mailman.halisp.net [mailto:warineur-bounces at mailman.halisp.net] On Behalf Of Richard Wilson
              Sent: Sunday, 1 February 2009 2:11 AM
              To: WarInEur at mailman.halisp.net
              Subject: [WarInEur] French Neutrality


              The problem with having the 3rd Republic go Neutral or Vichy without adequate UK support is that the basis is wrong. Vichy should really only be declarable if the Germans can hold to the historic timetable(ie beating the snot out of them within 8 weeks). If they can hold longer than that, then French honour is preserved and while they may surrender, Vichy doesn't get to form. 

              You can't have the French surrender and go pro-Axis neutral just because the English stay home. What will the French army size be? It won't be at any sort of mobilization level, and the Germans can't even allow it to be pre-war size when they turn their backs and invade Russia. So you have an almost completely empty France, with no Axis units in it, and very few French units. Can anyone spell cross-channel invasion in 1943? Into Neutral ports?

              If the UK does not have at least 8 divisions or division equivalents on Continental Europe then Vichy is formed automatically whenever the Germans get a ground unit in major supply adjacent to Paris, as long as this occurs within 8 turns of invading Belgium. The Axis gain the French NTP, which can then be used anywhere in the Med.

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