[WarInEur] One thing that bugs me

[Paul S. Person]

Is this what you mean:

"If the Axis has not declared war on the Soviet Union by 7/1941, the
Soviet player becomes active anyway, allowing him to move his units
and engage in peace time production."

If so, it appears you are confusing "peace time production" with "full
production". But see below: you may be correct insofar as the actual
behavior of the game is concerned.

This only applies, of course, if the Soviet Player does not have
control of the Soviet Union from the beginning; if the Soviet Player
does have control from the beginning, then the Soviet Player is
already "active", able to "move his units" and "engage in peace time
production" (indeed, required to, in BWIE-1). 

The next sentence is also relevant here:

"Anytime the Soviet Union is actively controlled, the Soviet player
may declare war on Germany at any time." 

so the Soviet Union can go to full production if the Soviet Player
declares war on the Axis. However, it is likely to take a while to
build up enough 4-4's, 5-5's, 8-6's, 9-6's, and 10(1)10's to make a
DOW on the Axis worth the risk of inviting an Axis attack.

Of course, that same rule section clearly states (the context is
Soviet Player control of the Soviet Union from the start of the game):

"During peace time production, the Soviet player receives four
personnel and eight arms points per cycle. The Siberian
reinforcements, released in 11/41, aren't part of Russian production,
and are still received automatically. Russia receives 55 personnel and
115 arms points upon going to war."

which is clearly not correct: the standard 1939 scenario has 6 arms
points per cycle for peace time production, and testing shows that the
Soviet Player gets 0 personnel and 120 arms points when total war
starts. How the game actually behaves cannot be predicted from the
rules, but can only be determined by testing. So, you may not be
confusing "peace time production" and "full production" at all: the
game may simply be doing something different from what the rules claim
it does.

The 55 personnel and 115 arms points are, of course, the pools in the
1941 WITE II campaign scenario in BWIE-1. Since the 115 arms points
would be /after/ the 120 arms point reserve has been released, it is
clear that it is mathematically impossible to duplicate the starting
position of the 1941 campaign scenario by starting with the Soviet
Player in control of the Soviet Union; and, when the units in the
pipeline in the 1941 WITE II campaign scenario are considered, it is
clear that the Soviet Player can produce /nothing like/ the units
available in the 1941campaign scenario by using the peace time
production process.

On Mon, 3 Aug 2009 16:38:34 -0400, Henry Leroy <vimuhla at gmail.com>
wrote:

>Just read the manual
>If you dont invade by 6/22/41 the USSR goes to full production anyway.
>
>On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 4:35 PM, sgminfo at aol.com <sgminfo at aol.com> wrote:
>
>>  I haven't played with this rule...
>>
>> At the moment Fred and I are in very early 1942 and the Axis are slowly
>> removing my British from Egypt....but no sign of my Soviets shifting into
>> high gear...
>>
>> Can you illuminate this a little more?
>>
>> -|steve|-
>>
>>
>> Henry Leroy wrote:
>>
>> It used to be a type of strategy to invade Turkey, to flank the Caucus.
>> and to FORCE a general CW withdrawl from Middle east.
>>
>> This new rule that the USSR goes to full wartime after 6/22/41 no matter
>> what
>> kills this idea. It is now all or nothing in the USSR.
>>
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