[WarInEur] Standard Scenarios

Sun Nov 30 17:22:42 EST 2008

I am able to grasp the rule quite well. It doesnt say what you claim it
does.
Why not focus of the rules for the COMBINED campaign?

On Sun, Nov 30, 2008 at 5:19 PM, Don Lazov <dlazov at comcast.net> wrote:

>  It is not a scenario rule it is a Campaign rule. All of rule 62 is
> campaign game rules.
>
> I don't why you can not graph this simple rule. It seems that since it
> disagrees with your way of thinking it must be wrong. Even Kent pointed out
> what it says.
>
> Again it's a campaign rule.
>
>
> Henry Leroy wrote:
>
> But what is 62.4?  As I suspect it is a scenario rule.
> As a matter of fact, yes all AP in excess of limits were destroyed.
>
> Thus in 1944, by NOT contesting control, the Germans were effectively
> shooting down 36AP a month.
> Because the Allies could not exceed the counter limits.
>
> The only way to contest Allied supremacy was to use U-boats.
>
> On Sun, Nov 30, 2008 at 4:01 PM, Kent & Sue Haunschild <kentsue at cox.net>wrote:
>
>>  Well actually I had to go back and read the rule.  SPI 62.4 stated that
>> no more than 30 German AP could be assigned to the East Front, but it also
>> noted that this was a East Front Rule.  The actual East Front campaigns said
>> that only 26 AP could be assigned and that this number was reduced by 4AP on
>> 13/41 and 4 more AP on 1/43.  Of course the reinforcement track was giving
>> them 7AP replacements a cycle.  I'm not sure what was supposed to be
>> happening to the excess AP.  Did they get thrown away if you were at the
>> cap? but I digress.
>>
>> Somewhere along the way the KC/LA errata got printed which proposed a 120
>> West Front/ 60 South Front/ 30 East Front on Air Superiority limitation.
>> This at least solved the problem of what to do with the excess AP you could
>> use them for airground missions but not for air superiority.  This info was
>> supplied to Greg when he was coding CWIE1 and he incorporated it as a
>> default not an optional condition.  When DG revised the game they
>> incorporated most of the CWIE1 code as the new default rules.  So today if
>> you look up the DG living rules you will see the 120/60/30 ruling as the
>> default condition.
>>
>>  ----- Original Message -----
>> *From:* Neil Randall <nrandall at uwaterloo.ca>
>> *To:* warineur at mailman.halisp.net
>>   *Sent:* Sunday, November 30, 2008 11:04 AM
>> *Subject:* RE: [WarInEur] Standard Scenarios
>>
>>  My understanding was always that the AP limits most certainly applied to
>> the full WIE campaign.
>>
>>
>>
>> Neil
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* warineur-bounces at mailman.halisp.net [mailto:
>> warineur-bounces at mailman.halisp.net] *On Behalf Of *Don Lazov
>> *Sent:* Sunday, November 30, 2008 11:52 AM
>> *To:* Henry Leroy
>> *Cc:* warineur at mailman.halisp.net
>> *Subject:* Re: [WarInEur] Standard Scenarios
>>
>>
>>
>> Henry,
>>
>> No need to shout. In fact your wrong. That rule is in effect for all
>> scenarios and campaigns for WitE. All you need to do is to look at how SPI
>> wrote the rule booklets. Both WitW and WitE have both scenario rules and
>> campaign rules. When you then combine them to make WIE campaign games you
>> add from both (as per the rules using common sense).
>>
>> Again rule under case 62.2 are for Campaigns (no real reason for this rule
>> in the WitE scenarios because the AP are predefined and AP are presumed to
>> be eliminated).
>>
>> [62.2] CAMPAIGN SCENARIOS
>> (Campaign Game)
>> A Campaign Scenario uses the Standard Scenario Deployment plus an
>> additional deployment detailing the status of the Soviet Production
>> apparatus. (Section 6 of the Common Scenario Format. Instead of being played
>> for a limited number of Game-Turns it is continued until 4/13/44.
>>
>> It's not a illusion, it a simple rule and clearly stated by SPI (30 AP
>> max). The reason you fail to see this as a rule is that you have never
>> played WitE 1st edition. In that game the max was 20 AP.
>>
>> SPI intended only a max of 30 AP on the east.
>>
>> Henry Leroy wrote:
>>
>> All of that is SCENARIO restrictions. Not campaign. WitE2 was a scenario.
>> In the supplemental booklet that came with the entire game, and was
>> apparently ignored by most KC oriented players,
>> there is NO restriction on ANY front. There is also no restriction on
>> fortification markers.
>>
>> That supplement merged the War in the West scenario and the War in the
>> East Scenario into a Campaign Scenario.
>> The idea that Germany could only fly 30 ap on the East front is absurd. It
>> is abomination.
>> It is for people who dont like the idea that Germany can shut the Soviets
>> out.
>>
>> That doesnt bother me as EITHER side. I can advance w/o air support just
>> fine.
>>
>> But you propagate the illusion that the air front limits are the norm.
>> They are NOT,
>>
>> On Sun, Nov 30, 2008 at 8:14 AM, Don Lazov <dlazov at comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>> Henry,
>>
>> When I setup all the scenarios and or campaigns rest assured I pulled the
>> info out of SPI rules books, this was further supplemented and as required
>> by DG to use DG rules. So if there was an Air Front limit (such as in WitE2
>> with 30 AP for the Germans) then yest that limit is set per the BWIE rules.
>>
>> If you do edit a scenario and increase the Air War limits I would suggest
>> you notify whom ever you play that your not going to use the RAW.
>>
>> Rules of reference:
>>
>> SPI
>> [62.4] LUFTWAFFE (War in the East)
>> The Axis may not have more than 30 Air Points assigned to the East Front
>> at any time. This maximum is reduced by application of 50.21.
>>
>> DG
>> [13.12]
>> ...
>>
>> *There is a maximum number of Air Points that may be assigned to Air
>> Superiority per Player, per Front.  In two- and three-Player games, Soviet
>> and Allied Air Points are counted separately.  The maximum for the East
>> Front is 30 Air Points, for the South Front is 60 Air Points, and for the
>> West Front is 120 Air Points. ** The reduction of available air points
>> due to weather does not modify this limit.*
>>
>>
>> Best regards~
>>
>>
>> Henry Leroy wrote:
>>
>> It is important to note that all the 'standard' scenarios have the same
>> foolish air front limits
>> of the original CWIE. And I suspect the same fortification limits.
>>
>> Those limits NEVER existed in the original board game.
>>
>> So any time I decide to play, it will be an edited scenario.
>>
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