{Disarmed} Re: {Disarmed} Re: [WarInEur] Standard Scenarios

[Kent & Sue Haunschild]

Jim- the current plan is to soon apply operational losses to the AP as well.  Something like a 1% loss rate for any sortie, a 2% for air-ground missions, and a 3% for air-sea missions.  So the more you fly the more you lose.

There are two purposes one to impose a general wastage and keep the builds from running away and two to keep the stronger airforce from shutting down the weaker one.  Every airforce was generally able to achieve local air suppority when they wanted no matter how badly outnumbered they were in general.

I think there might also be a few changes in the attrition model.  I was talking to Steve the other day and we considered the possibility of factoring Combat losses by the combat odds (The higher the odds the lower the attrition or the same amount of attrition spread over more units depending on how you want to look at it.) and two new catagories of movement.  A cost to enter or leave a ZOC. 

In general I think the settings in the attrition table are too debilitating, but those are completely editable so that's not really an issue at this point.

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Storeforest2 at aol.com 
  To: SGMINFO at aol.com 
  Cc: WarinEur at mailman.halisp.net 
  Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2008 1:23 PM
  Subject: {Disarmed} Re: {Disarmed} Re: [WarInEur] Standard Scenarios


  In a message dated 11/30/2008 11:11:41 AM Pacific Standard Time, SGMINFO writes:
    The decimal die for air combat (rather than losses) means that the airwar is simply much less lethal. It does not affect anything else.

  Yes but this lack of being as lethal represents many saved production points also.  I am unsure this will not throw the balance off.


    Attrition values are intended to apply as a lingua franca across the board. They represent a universality of fudge factors simulating limitations generally upon units of the time, rather than any one particular characteristc of a unit. Push units too hard, and they weaken and fail, through a mix of human, logistical, and mechanical factors.
  Only paritially true.  Well trained and motivated troops will not suffer these losses as quickly.  All can be pushed to there limits but some just say NUTS!


    With regard to North Africa and the wider issues of airsupport. The SPI standard die model was essentially one of careful pragmatism, the 6 sided die was implicit in the model, adding a more refined decimal model was not. This may have a lot more to with the costs on inventory stocks and product unit costs, than anything in particular.

    Where a decimal die was required, SPI seemed to resort to the chit system to implement to decimal die or cross referenced from a standard die to a decimal loss table (as in punic wars for example).

    What the 6 sided die model did not model well, was the ability of mutually operationally active air forces to operate in both ground support roles at the same time as running airsuperiority mission profile, whilst being unable to force the issue. 

    The result was a highly variable effect, inflicting seriously destabilising casualties on one side or another.

    In other words the size and capriciousness of the losses tended to mask the overall bell curve, and seriously distort the model.

    Players tended not to commit, for fear of getting their fingers badly burned, and living with the consequences for many cycles thereafter.

    The result, as tested with the decimal die roll, is for combat to continue for extensive periods across many fronts at a lower level. More in keeping with observed performance in the real world.

    The final result is one of increased losses overall, but such losses being conducted in more controllable, and less damaging ways. The wastage rates at this increased level serve a very useful function in keeping in check the runaway production problems in the later war periods, when the weaker player actively chooses not to commit, for the simple reason that the rewards do not justify the risks of exposure to potentially annihilating  losses.

    I believe Kent has sampled this adjustment and found it very much too his liking, and it may well serve on the eastern front to solve several issues pending with the airforces...

  As to its adjustment and liking I will need to try many games using it before I can make an objective determination.  I consider the option to be awesome but the implementation may not be as good as I suspect it might.

  Jim





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