[WarInEur] RE: WarInEur Digest, Vol 42, Issue 37

[John Pace]

And of course, what if the allies did bomb. Would Stalin joined the Axis?  In which case, we would need to revise WiE Victory conditions?  History is full of interesting possiblities...................

Kent & Sue Haunschild <kentsue at cox.net> wrote:          Interesting observation about which way Bulgaria and Turkey would have jumped.  Not sure I agree but if the Allies do go to war with Russia in support of Bulgaria and Turkey then the diplomacy would get really messy.  You have the "phony war" in the West but with a German/Soviet cooperation pact in place.  Would the Germans and Soviet then become Allies? Maybe to the extend of allowing the Germans to use all five Soviet resource centers?  The Allies did lead the effort to expel Russia from the league of nations, were considering military intervention in Finland, and did draw up plans to bomb the Russian oil fields in the Caucus, so the idea is not totally farfetched.
   
  However, I think the Turks were more interested in trying to restore the Ottoman empire.  Since Bulgaria was once a part of that, I don't see much cooperation with Turkey.  The situation would be similar to Poland.  The Soviets offered to send in 30 divisions to "help" defend the country, but the Poles knew that once they allowed the Soviet military to freely transit Polish territory they would never be able to expel them.
    ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: John Pace 
  To: Kent & Sue Haunschild ; warineur at mailman.halisp.net 
  Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2008 9:54 AM
  Subject: Re: [WarInEur] RE: WarInEur Digest, Vol 42, Issue 37
  

  Kent, in this case it can be true.  As to whether SPI or DG introduced these date limits, I do not know, having lost my original SPI game.
   
  For example, if the Soviets invaided Romania, then I am sure Bulgaria (and Turkey) would of joined the war.  However, which side?  Before the 1940 fall of Paris, they would have probabily joined the allies, but after fall of Paris they join the Axis. In which case, a pair of devious Soviet/Allied players could engineer a Soviet invasion of Bessarabia (which per the pact was Soviet territory) and cause Turkey to become Allied nation, with the resulting loss of a resouce hex for the Germans.  
   
  Like trying to force the British BEF in France 1940, the problem is that most WWII games automatically follow the flow of the historic "Hitler European Tour 1939-45", trying to force 'historical' restictions can cause more problems than they solve.  Remember, WiE players have the advantage of hindsight which the real WWII leaders did not have.
   
  (Historically, Turkey did DOW against the Germans on 28th Feb 1945, in order to join the United Nations organisation.)  
   
  As to the issue of date restrictions on these minor pro-Axis nations, I agree, we should ditch them.
  
John
  
Kent & Sue Haunschild <kentsue at cox.net> wrote:
      John you bring up a point I have a little trouble with when playing WiE and that is the date limitations for activation of the Axis minors.  I'm not really even sure why DG included them.  There is nothing the Axis player can do to speed up the accumulation of political points except attack France early.  However, the Allies/Soviets can run amok and DOW everything it sight and the Axis minors will just sit there regardless of the political point total.  I understand the historical time table but it appears that this is one of those events that should not be hard coded for the sake of history because it opens up the possibilities of a lot of gamy tactics. The original SPI rules did not include a date code.  Hungary etal were activated by the political point triggers period.
   
  Kent
    
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