[WarInEur] RE: WarInEur Digest, Vol 42, Issue 37

Tue Jan 22 10:13:14 EST 2008

There are cycle restrictions on these three nations joining the Axis.
  According to 42.3.6 Activation (Hungarian )
  Hungary may join the Axis and become an active Axis nation when the Axis Political Point total reaches or exceeds 55 and it is 0/9/40 or later.

  And for Romania 
  Rumania can join the Axis on 0/10/40 or later if the Axis Political Point total is 60 or greater.

  and Bulgaria
  Bulgaria can join the Axis on 0/10/40 or later if the Axis Political Point total is 60 or greater.

  As to Vichy formation According to 43.7.1 How a Vichy France Government Is Established. Vichy generation is not guarantied, it is a random event dependent on how many CW div are in France 

  At the beginning of any Allied Player Turn that finds Paris occupied by a Supplied Axis ground combat unit, the Allied Player must roll the die to determine if a Vichy Government is established. He modifies the die roll result by adding “one” for every three full-strength Commonwealth divisions present in France. If the modified die roll is one through five, then Vichy France is established. In this event, the Axis Player must immediately state if he accepts a surrender by Vichy France. If he does so, then the provisions of 43.7.2 are put into effect. If he refuses, the Vichy Government is dissolved, France continues in the war as an Allied power, and Vichy will never be established. [If the die roll fails, it is repeated on each succeeding Turn until it succeeds.] A Vichy France government may not be declared after the end of 1/13/41.

  As to advantages of allied delaying Paris occupation, while the allies can keep the Germans out of Paris, the Germans cannot loot France for 10 prod and 4 personnel.

  John

Wardall Clark <baseballnut570 at hotmail.com> wrote:      .hmmessage P  {  margin:0px;  padding:0px  }  body.hmmessage  {  FONT-SIZE: 10pt;  FONT-FAMILY:Tahoma  }    Steve, 
I beg to differ here.  
You posit that if Full Strength CW division were "trapped" in France then the Axis would delay 
the Vichy surrender.  

No Vichy surrender means 
(1) free movement for French units in the Mediterranean
(2) More weeks of fighting bringing the critical 10th week and French fortifications that much 
closer 
(3) decreasing time Window for any 1940 Seelowe operation. 
(4) delay in activating Rumania, Hungary and Bulgaria 

Actually, since the sea movement and Build rules effectively preclude any chance of an ultimately 
successful Operation Sea Lion, my Germans never accept the Vichy Surrender and instead 
go for full surrender so that the Axis inherits the critical French All-mediterranean Sea Lift capacity. 
That lets me claim Political points for driving the Free French into the Sea in Western North Africa
and let's me use Tobruk as a supply port against the Brits in Egypt/Libya. IN order to get the full 
surrender my troops have to enter Paris. 

Furthermore, given that the RAF and Royal Navy are sufficient to protect Great Britain, My Brits simply 
use the British unit Breakdown rules to produce Full Strength Divisions out of Battlegroups and send them 
to Africa. Hence since the presence of full strength divisions in France by itself pretty much prevents or 
at least delays Operation Sea Lion, the Axis can't gain by ignoring these divisions and refusing to finish 
off France in a timely manner. 

That said, I agree with Steve that the fall of Paris is not the best trigger
a) France is allowed to fight on under the rules, if it did, it would be treacherous for the Brits to pull out. 
b) Vichy can be formed without Axis troops ever entering Paris-Steve has this one right- some weird
result such a british violation of Vichy territory could result if the Axis Opts to game the system rather 
than concentrate on the timely annihilation of the BEF. 

The proper trigger for the end of the CW's obligation to France is the Surrender of France, either by formation 
of a Vichy Government or the axis Capture of both Bordeaux and Paris. 

-Bob-

---------------------------------

> Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 12:00:43 -0500
> From: warineur-request at mailman.halisp.net
> Subject: WarInEur Digest, Vol 42, Issue 37
> To: warineur at mailman.halisp.net
> 
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> Today's Topics:
> 
> 1. Re: Flexibility for house rules. (sgminfo)
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 11:44:34 +0000
> From: sgminfo <sgminfo at aol.com>
> Subject: Re: [WarInEur] Flexibility for house rules.
> To: Kent & Sue Haunschild <kentsue at cox.net>
> Cc: Hansen <ultrasoundimages at sbcglobal.net>,
> warineur at mailman.halisp.net
> Message-ID: <479485A2.50109 at aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> 
> Kent & Sue Haunschild wrote:
> > 
> > > You asked what else to have "flexible".
> 
> With regard to these options and flexibility...
> 
> A concept that I have toyed with is this.
> 
> Each option has an associated number in binary format, setting bits for 
> the options. The result is a unique number.
> 
> 1 option A
> 1 option B
> 1. option C
> 
> So if all options are set the number in binary is 111 which converted to 
> decimal is.. 7
> 
> This can be used as shorthand notation...
> 
> I.E. when setting a game up there is a box included on the start screen, 
> into which you can put this number...the result is all the appropriate 
> numbers switch on the options for you.
> 
> Now in discussions on preceding games, you just look up the unique 
> number on the previous game and this garrantees that all the options are 
> set 'as was' so you can keep on going...in a repeat game.
> 
> 
> Asd regards the idea that full strength division can only leave france 
> AFTER paris falls...it canbe open to the same abuses that Soviet 
> personel centers began to show as axis players cooked up various devices 
> to exploit the rules relating to them, a better play might be, allied 
> full strength forces may only leve france after the Axis has got 
> adjacent to Paris...less easy to exploit
> 
> A variant of the code alredy developed for UK bgs might be mofifiable to 
> suit this relatively simply.
> 
> Coding it may not be a problem...the response of commanders might be...
> 
> i.e. what prudent Brish commander is going to export his army to france, 
> only to have it locked up there, meanwhile the Germans go for the med, 
> and the British are defenceless, or an attack on the UK is directly 
> launched whilst the BEF cannot relocate to defeat it in detail...
> 
> As I say, the response of commanders is likely to make this a different 
> proposition to that intended.
> 
> As an aside,
> 
> You are still free to make and operate houserules such as not 
> withdrawing units from France, or having to commit 10 divisions, players 
> can always mae such agreements amoung themselves
> 
> 
> -|steve|-
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