[WarInEur] RE: Kents Wish List

[Wardall Clark]

War In Europe is wonderful in that the players are largely free to take their own diplomatic and Military risks;
War In Europe has a problem in that some of these risks are inadequately presented within the rules.
 
There are two ways in which the rules of CWIE can deal with this shortcoming. One is to hardwire 
the Nation's politically generated military DOCTRINE into the game.  THe Finnish restrictions are a perfect 
and aggravatingly detailed example of this. Another is the air support requirement for amphibious invasions. 
The most significant example of doctrine within WIE is the peace-time deployments of the Soviets.   
 
The other method is to write in political penalties for departures from Historical play which the majority of players 
would be unwilling to suffer. (e.g. If the rules call for +5 to the political total with no subsequent -5 penalty for Axis 
invasion of the USSR, then you can bet that my USSR won't invade Romania.)  Unfortunately, sometimes we find either that neither of these is provided for by the rules or that eventual penalties 
prove not to be in line with the potential rewards for radical departure from historical play. The BEF example is one 
of these situations--hence the list is proposing and critiquing means of rectifying play.
 
If I remember my History correctly, the commitment was the price that Britain agreed to in order to secure the French DoW 
after Germany attacked Poland.  This is the reason I feel that this was a matter of geo-political/military DOCTRINE and so a
substantial number of CW units should make their first appearance on French Soil with NO provision for removing them 
short of England returning to Neutral Status (and hence forfeiting the ability to meddle in the Med unless the Axis is so 
obliging as to directly attack in Egypt or Palestine or Iraq.)  
 
HOWEVER:   one of the fun features of WIE is that house rules and Options let us relax doctrine for purposes of play balance or
just to see what might happen if the High Command had changed the restrictions under which the Front commanders were operating. 
           A remedy along this line would be to change the entry points for nations such as Spain, Turkey and Yugoslavia. The reason I 
mentioned the entry points is that alternative approach, a political bonus, effects all nations on the map simultaneously, while moving 
the entry point targets specific nations.  Since some WIE games are three-sided, I think it completely unfair that the Brits should be 
allowed to deliberately add to Russia's troubles by taking action that makes it so much easier to activate Turkey as an Axis nation. 
Regarding Kent's list and CWIE-2, which is still under construction. 
 
Some of us want to receive our "final copies" as soon as possible. Others of us already have a glitchy version to play with 
and so are considering what can be done about the short-comings of the main DG game before all the glitches are removed and 
CWIE-2 is commercially released:   Kent's approach, which I strongly second,  is to proceed as follows
 
Step one: substitute player-editable variables for a wide range of fixed values taken from DG WIE 4th Edition
DOing this as thoroughly as he suggests would probably delay final release another two months.  Its been 12 months since I 
prepaid for my copy, I suppose I have become stoic about the delays, especially if the delays are based on improvements.
Step Two: release CWIE-2 with only the DG optional rules as ready-made modules. 
Step Three:   Play lots of house rule games using adjustments to the variable and see what happens.
Step Four:  Post results for feedback and to encourage others to try these alterations.
Step Five: Beg (programmer) Karl to create Option-Modules for those settings that pass muster. 
Step SIX:   Sell ??? an expanded options packet at some much later date. 
 
Ultimately, I think Kent's approach is the proper one.  I can write out an air-tight and realistic sounding 
optional rule in a matter of hours. I can even write the pseudo code, but unless the game is already editable 
in the way Kent describes it may be quite simply impossible to have such a rule.  The same applies to each 
of us on the list. 
   However,  once we all have the same editable CWIE-2 we can try out competing versions of optional rules 
to see which leads to more fun and which leads to more anomalies. We can resolve wording differences by 
play-testing rather than rhetoric. 
 
-Bob in Louisville-
 



> From: "Hansen" <ultrasoundimages at sbcglobal.net> > > > You asked what else to have "flexible". > > > > When it comes down to it, there are several common elements that were in the > > discussions. Essentially the ideas work out to "If X, then Y". While it is > > very nice to have the computer keep track of things, a reasonable set of > > house rules lets us set the X. As an example, I and my opponent can agree > > that 10 BEF divisions have to have fought in France '40, can't be withdrawn > > as full divisions until Paris falls (or the Germans are next to Paris), but > > can be withdrawn as BG. Maybe the rules are more detailed, but as humans we > > can work that out. The real problem is implementing Y. Ideally, we have a > > table that allows for a wide variety of Y results to be implemented, even if > > it requires human editing. > > > > So what are these Y elements? > > 1) Increase or decrease German political points. > > 2) Increase or decrease loot (production and personnel) points for every > > country. > > 3) Allow control of countries to change (e.g. Yugoslavia joins the Axis). > > 4) Allow restrictions on countries army movement to change. > > 5) Allow for units to be added, deleted or changed. > > 6) Allow for control of hexes to be changed and for features (e.g. Cities, > > rail lines, etc) to be added to hexes. > > 7) Allow for railroad/port status to be changed. > > 8) Allow for the Mediterranean restrictions to be turned on/off (so Axis > > allowed to transport into western med or allies not allowed to transport > > into middle med). > > 9) Allow for amount of transport to be changed (whether this is done by > > TRANS units being added/subtracted or just designating number and scope of > > permanent transport. > > 10) Allow for the Axis high seas interdiction to have a modification to the > > die role (to make it more or less likely the interdiction takes place). > > 11) Allow for supply ranges to be changed (preferably by different > > zones/countries). > > 12) Allow for air ranges to be changed. > > 13) Allow for production rates and production points to be changed. > > 14) Allow for additional random numbers to be generated between a min and > > max inclusive to be used by players. > > 15) Allow for combat modifiers in a hex to be changed (both as +/- to die > > roll, +/- to defensive strength and as multiplier, should be assignable to > > attacks through any or all of the hex sides). > > 16) Allow for editing the combat results table. > > 17) Allow for changing unit strengths for all countries to be designated > > (both increase and decrease) with the trigger points being able to be set by > > calendar or by manual change. > > 18) Allow for changing the air combat results tables including making the > > automatic shooting down of support air be a combat result instead. > > > > There should also be a list of all the changes made during the game. > > > > Note that all of this gives the computer game the flexibility to be more > > like the board game and thus amenable to house rules. Any house rule you > > implement in the computer game could also be done in the board game. > > > > Given all the above, I have a hard time thinking of any "If X, then Y" > > option that has been discussed that we couldn't implement. Want to test what > > would have happened if the Maginot was longer, #15 gives you that ability. > > Want to see what would happen if the rail net into southern Russia was more > > historical, #6 allows that. > > > > The different ideas of pro-axis Vichy, additional political/loot points, etc > > for not deploying sufficient BEF can all be done. > > 
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