[WarInEur] Combat results oddity

Tue Aug 26 15:51:46 EDT 2008

Your discovering one of the flaws in the simulation for yourself.  France is too strong militarily speaking.

There are several reasons for this in the game.  One, there is no down side to stripping the French colonies of troops.  The reality is that the forces that France ststioned in the colonies were more of a garrison to keep the "natives" from revolting than to defend them from outside agressors.  Two, the French Infantry are represented as a uniformly trained force of 3-4's.  However this was not the case.  Many units lacked manpower and equipment. There were a lot of ill trained reserve and newly formed units.  I'd guess that 50% or more of the units on map in 1940 should be 2-4's and all the reinforcements should be 2-4's.

It takes a down grading of that magnitude to give the Germans a chance, not a certainty, of defeating France within a historic timetable and with reasonable casualties.  This is especially true when the historic rules are not used.  The entire German Production system "presumes" a historic 1940 campaign,  when it takes longer or costs more, then it derails the invasion of  Russia and the Axis goes down in 44 not 45.

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Gary Krockover 
  To: Eric Gerber ; Kent & Sue Haunschild ; Warineur 
  Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 12:11 PM
  Subject: RE: [WarInEur] Combat results oddity

  In my pbem game (me as the Allies), Germany is having a heck of a time defeating France; it's the 3rd week, 8th cycle, of 1940 and he's just now barely reaching Paris. We can't imagine that Russia would ever have a chance of falling.

  The sad part of it is, that as the Allies, I've rarely counter-attacked because the best that I can muster is a poor 3:1 attack that would more times than not be more detrimental to me, so I just fortify and sit there which takes away from the enjoyment factor a bit.

  Again though, we are both new to the game, so perhaps there's some tactics or approaches that are unique to the game that we need to learn.

  GJK 

  At 01:55 AM 8/25/2008, Eric Gerber wrote:

    The original game was about making lots of 3-1 attacks.  This is what allow you to push the line until it broke.

    Eric

      -----Original Message-----

      From: warineur-bounces at mailman.halisp.net [ mailto:warineur-bounces at mailman.halisp.net]On Behalf Of Kent & Sue Haunschild

      Sent: August 24, 2008 10:57 PM

      To: Warineur; Gary Krockover

      Subject: Re: [WarInEur] Combat results oddity

      The the board game CRT has been coded into CWIE2 so they are identical.  Normally, I never make low odds attacks because they are so adverse for the attacker.

      However, the attrition option almost requires the use of low odds attacks to soak off the ememy strength.  It was while playing a hotseat game that it occurred to me that when the defender is flipped he always has the option to retreat but the attacker doesn't.  Which given the rules regarding flips always have the retreat option seemed odd. So I brought it up for comment.

      One of the reasons the Static division were given the attack factor of one was so that it could participate in a low odds attack and hope for a both retreat result and maybe retreat out of a pocket  Otherwise they are just about helpless

      Expanding on this idea and modifying the CRT by adding some Ar results  and allowing the Attacker the retreat option if flipped by a Ae or Aex result "seem" to be an expansion of that idea and should give the Allies and Soviets some more combat options when on CRT4.

      For example-

      Maybe the 1:2 odds which is now all Ae would be changed to Ae, Ae, Aex, Aex, Ar, Ar.  So there would be a 1/3 chance for complete dietruction of the attacker, a 1/3 chance of an exchange result with a flip and attacker retreat option following and a 1/3 the the attacker would be forced to retreat or flip to hold the hex.

      Other columns woul be similiarly modified but you get the idea.  Players have complained that the Allies and Soviets have such crappy CRT's that it is impossible to make an attack.  This or a similiar change would rectify that to a certain extent.

        ----- Original Message ----- 

        From: Gary Krockover 

        To: Kent & Sue Haunschild ; Warineur 

        Sent: Sunday, August 24, 2008 11:48 PM

        Subject: Re: [WarInEur] Combat results oddity

        I'm new to the game, but along these lines I've noticed that the CRT's are very defensively balanced (i.e., very non-"bloody").  A 4:1 or 5:1 attack even only does a DR on a 5 or a 6 with the rest of the results being adverse to the attacker.  This just means that you really have to plan and coordinate your attacks (using air support and optimal combined arms attacks).  Is this normal in the boardgame version as well (I'm coming from the CWIE2 beta-tester point of view)?

        GJK

        At 11:29 PM 8/24/2008, Kent & Sue Haunschild wrote:

          On combat results of 1/2ex, Ex, or De if either unit is eliminated it can flip and retreat.  If the Result is a Dr or Br the defender can choose to flip and hold the hex and the attacker can choose to flip and advance on a Br. However, if the result is a Ae or Aex the battlegroups cannot retreat.  Seems kind of odd.

          [11.32] At the moment that a unit is reduced to its Battlegroup, the Battlegroup has the option to retreat one hex. In some cases, this will save the unit from being Overrun in the Enemy Mechanized Movement Phase.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

          [12.63] Whenever a Kampfgruppe or a Battlegroup is formed as a result of combat, that unit has the option to retreat one hex. This retreat must be made immediately during the Combat Phase, before any other combat is resolved.

          Here are two rules from the DG living rules.  Why don't they apply to Ae or Aex results.  Also how come there is no Ar.  It seems to me that it is more likely that a attacker will retreat rather than suffer elimination.

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