[WarInEur] RE:AXIS defending the south in WITW

Mon Aug 18 13:58:23 EDT 2008

I've tried this at least once in CWIE1. Some conclusions I drew (your
experience may be different, of course):

1) It makes more sense to invade Portugal either first or at the same
time: another major port, on a rail net leading into central Spain.
2) Spain is not Western Europe: it will take a while to clear.
3) The German will have to defend France on three sides. This is going
to stretch the defenders out a bit.

A game I played where Spain and Turkey joined the Axis suggested to me
that these "allies" are best left in the "potential ally" box and
never activated: weak units, and a new path for the enemy to use to
attack! (I was able to use Turkey as a base for infiltrating armor [at
least, a use for Axis Allied armor units!]  into the Caucasus and
playing havoc with the Russian production system, at least until the
Soviet player was able to put enough units there to recover -- units
that did /not/ go to the main front in Russia, but I was able to do
almost as much good by conquering the Crimea and crossing the "river"
at Kerch ... it's actually possible to take Krasnodar that way!)

Note that all CWIE1 games I have played were solitaire games. Against
a real opponent, well, given my personal experience, I wouldn't expect
things to work out all that well for my side, whichever side that was.

On Mon, 18 Aug 2008 10:07:36 -0400, you wrote:

>Wasn't Vichy France Neutral? As for Spain I would say they would wage a war like the Yugo's against whom ever invaded them! As for political ramifications, the Russians might have complained maybe but they wanted help from the West. The Spanish speaking nations may have had issues with it, but at home once it was spun as shortening the war it would be fine.
>
>This is a non-issue, if it is a problem for the Germans then invade them and setup a defense before hand!
>
>Chuck Sutherland
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: warineur-bounces at mailman.halisp.net [mailto:warineur-bounces at mailman.halisp.net] On Behalf Of Jeffery K. McGonagill
>Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2008 11:57 AM
>To: warineur at mailman.halisp.net
>Subject: Re: [WarInEur] RE:AXIS defending the south in WITW
>
>I don't see it as "poor, poo Axis".  I see it as too little consequence for
>Allied actions.  There are reasons the Allies didn't invade any neutral
>countries in WWII, but the game doesn't discourage this ahistorical action
>and the political points (a very poor way of showing the political side)
>isn't much of a consequence.
>
>~Jeffery~
>
>
>> Here we go again with "poor poor Axis" stuff.
>>
>> I propose we keep the WIE political penalty rules as is, perhaps LOWER
>> them if more Axis freebies are part of the new" WIE.
>>
>> Spain was a VERY pro Axis rigid fascist state (until 1975), and the
>> penalty for Allied "democracies'" attacks on it should be very very
>> small...
>>
>> ...until at least the  mid 1950s when Eisenhower, under pressure from his
>> right wing, decided to cozy up to unregenerate fascist dictator Franco to
>> "win" the Cold war.
>>
>>
>> I wonder how many list readers have actually played a Spanish campaign. I
>> have both  defended it With Spanish help from German attack and have
>> attacked Spanish and German defenses with the Allies.
>>
>> Neither are easy.
>>
>> --- On Sun, 8/17/08, Wardall Clark <baseballnut570 at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> From: Wardall Clark <baseballnut570 at hotmail.com>
>>> Subject: [WarInEur] RE: defending the south in WITW
>>> To: warineur at mailman.halisp.net
>>> Date: Sunday, August 17, 2008, 7:35 AM
>>> Historically, the Germans debated what to do after they
>>> failed to crush the Salerno Invasion.  Allied amphibious
>>> shipping in the Mediterranean area was actually very
>>> limited, but the Axis gave the Allies credit for about 50%
>>> more Amphs than were really
>>> available. Nonetheless, once it was demonstrated that very
>>> limited units could slow the allied advance to a crawl, the
>>> decision was made to assign the garisson in Northern Italy
>>> to the twin tasks of being a theatre reserve and keeping the
>>> Italian population centers passive.
>>>
>>> Thus the Actual Allied Invasion tied down more troops than
>>> a WitW invasion can. My gut instinct says keep a small
>>> mobile reserve to deal with Anzio-style landings and defend
>>> as close to Naples as you can so that the effectiveness of
>>> Italy as a Strategic Bomber Base is limited.
>>> Regards Spain.  The Allied invasion of Spain cost 5
>>> Political Points, that is rather small, and if the count is
>>> nowhere near activating Turkey the 5 Political point cost is
>>> inconseguential.  The Allies strategic goal is not drive the
>>> count down to zero (that' s a Soviet Victory condition)
>>> and since there are no other armed Nations that jmight join
>>> the Allies or Axis as the game procedes the actual political
>>> count is irrelevent. I would propose that the penalty be 20
>>> points, the same as if the Axis Violates Spain.  In WIE this
>>> should be reduced to 10.
>>>
>>> Regards the Balkans:   It is my understanding that Romania
>>> and Hungary are in play, but with reduced armed forces.  The
>>> DG site details what those forces are.
>>>
>>> The only prohibited territory is Finland and the 1941
>>> Soviet Union.
>>>
>>> BOB IN LOUISVILLE
>>> > Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2008 12:00:25 -0400> From:
>>> warineur-request at mailman.halisp.net> Subject: WarInEur
>>> Digest, Vol 49, Issue 13> To:
>>> warineur at mailman.halisp.net> > Send WarInEur mailing
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>>> > Today's Topics:> > 1. Invading Spain &
>>> War in the West German Tactics>
>>> (CarlAugustRuppSr at aol.com)> > >
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------->
>>> > Message: 1> Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2008 11:14:54 EDT>
>>> From: CarlAugustRuppSr at aol.com> Subject: [WarInEur]
>>> Invading Spain & War in the West German Tactics> To:
>>> WarInEur at mailman.halisp.net> Message-ID:
>>> <ced.3e204308.35d848ee at aol.com>> Content-Type:
>>> text/plain; charset="us-ascii"> > I am
>>> playtesting the War in the West 1943 Campaign, and my Allied
>>> opponent, > after being stymied in Italy, so that I have
>>> kept the Italians from > surrendering, has just invaded
>>> Spain, using Gibraltar as a base. The tactic seems to >
>>> be effective, because while I need to garrison France, and
>>> prevent him from > taking either Messina or a major port
>>> on the mainland (to prevent Italy from > surrendering), I
>>> also need to stop him at the Pyrenees. This raises a few
>>> > points:> > 1. Do you think the 5 political point
>>> penalty for the Allies for invading > Spain is
>>> meaningful? I don't. After all, the Allies didn't
>>> invade Spain ITRW.> 2. What do you think of this tactic
>>> of invading Spain?> 3. Do you think it is worth the
>>> effort to keep Italy from surrendering? The > Germans
>>> risk a cut off invasion (ala Anzio) that might strand
>>> valuable troops > in the south of Italy. Or should they
>>> just pull back and set up a line from > Genoa to Venice
>>> to avoid being outflanked. I know there is a lot a good >
>>> defensive terrain to the south with valuable rivers that
>>> could be used to slow > down the Allied advance.> 4.
>>> And what about the Balkans, what value is there in keep
>>> them? Should the > Germans just pull out and create
>>> defensive line at Zagreb and Trieste? After > all,
>>> Hungary and Romania are not part of the map in the WitW, so
>>> you can leave > their borders open> > > >
>>> Carl> > > > > > **************Looking for
>>> a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? >
>>> Read reviews on AOL Autos. >
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>>
>>
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