[WarInEur] RE: map grid

Chuck Sutherland csutherland at gamewoodinc.com
Thu Oct 25 17:00:49 EDT 2007


I hope I'm not duplicating this, but what options are you using for the 
games in question?


sgminfo wrote:
> Well on the Eastern front in two games tested so far things are a bit 
> of a knife edge, possibly very historical. The Germans have chopped 
> the Soviets to bits, as the Soviets have faught (and bled themselves 
> white) delaying and struggling to the outskirts of Moscow. Winter is 
> about to strike.
>
> Now most theoretical pundits of this situation have considered that 
> the shambolic state of the Axis outside moscow, attritioned almost to 
> a standstill means they are like lambs to the slaughter, necks 
> stretched out on the block, awaiting winter's  icy touch.
>
>  But the reality is somewhat different. The Soviet forces are in every 
> bit as bad a state. if not worse, the veterans dying in their tracks 
> after endless retreats, and the new forces appearing, mere paper 
> shells of what they could have been, and in no real condition to deal 
> the coup de grace either. It will be interesting to se what transpires 
> over the next few weeks...
>
> I have several games, all of which seem to be reflecting this point 
> and balance, so this may be a generalised situation.
> It holdstheprospect oftheSpring of 1942bein oneof recuperation and 
> furious rehabilitation of enough units to start the German summer 
> offensive, which may be exactly what thedoctor ordered in solving the 
> 1942 ww1 stule bloodbaths we normally siffer...
>
>
>
> -|steve|-
>
>
>
> Kent & Sue Haunschild wrote:
>> Bob, I think that the part that concerns me is the rail hexes because 
>> ultimately, supply cannot advance any faster than the rail head.  I 
>> can live with the hex orientation because while it does have a bias, 
>> the Axis supply range was increased from 6 to 10 and the Soviet's 
>> from 4 to 6. So the hex bias is sort of factored in to the second 
>> edition.
>>  
>> The biggest change as you have pointed out is the inability to 
>> convert hexes during Mud and a rail net which is not only greatly 
>> reduced, but has been gerimandered to actually increase the number of 
>> rail hexes that need to be repaired.
>>  
>> SPI designed the MSU to compensate for this but I think the concept 
>> was inadequately game tested because their use guaranteed that the 
>> Axis could reach Moscow in supply in 41.  That ugly reality is what 
>> gave us the no chaining of MSU errata rules.  Unfortunately, I think 
>> that was an over kill.
>>  
>> Maybe the prodcution cost should have been doubled to reduce the 
>> number that could be built or the supply range of sequential MSU's 
>> reduced, or the political points cost for Moscow reduced because its 
>> capture pretty much guarantees that the Turks and Spainards are going 
>> to enter the game on the Axis side. But eliminating chaining would 
>> not have been my first choice.
>>  
>> Whatever choice players want to experiment with is possible in a 
>> board game.  In the computer game once you click on the first winter 
>> effects and eliminate chaining, then the Germans have no chance of 
>> knocking the Soviets out of the game.
>>  
>> Steve's attrition option is meant to be played with chaining allowed, 
>> but the MSU is subject to attrition and as it is attrited the supply 
>> range drops so you can't move them continuously but have to stop and 
>> allow them to recover.  It will be interesting to see how this 
>> affects the flow of the game.
>>
>>     ----- Original Message -----
>>     *From:* Wardall Clark <mailto:baseballnut570 at hotmail.com>
>>     *To:* warineur at mailman.halisp.net
>>     <mailto:warineur at mailman.halisp.net>
>>     *Sent:* Wednesday, October 24, 2007 1:36 AM
>>     *Subject:* [WarInEur] RE: map grid
>>
>>     A hex grid cannot treat travel in all 8 compass points the same .
>>     Every grid has favored and non-favored
>>     directions of counting.  Two points which are the same distance
>>     from a third point "as the crow flies" can
>>     be different number of hexes away from that third point.  In one,
>>     the distance in Km divided by 33
>>     equals the number of hexes it takes to move from one to the
>>     other, whereas the other distance in
>>     hexes is greater than the crow flies distance divided by 33 Km.
>>      
>>     In first edition WitE the least favored directions were northward
>>     and southward. In WIE the least-favored
>>     directions are Westward and eastward.  The direction from Kiev to
>>     Minsk on the WIE mapboard is a
>>     favored direction while the direction from Moscow to Minsk is a
>>     non-favored one. Kiev is Moscow is also
>>     favored.  If you trace this exact same triangle of cities in the
>>     1st edition map the dimensions in hexes
>>     come out different even though the map scale is unchanged.
>>      
>>     Given that Germans are driving pretty much due Eastward they have
>>     12% farther to travel in 1st edition
>>     WitE than in WIE. By the same reasoning, supply tends to fall
>>     behind its historical and 1st edition
>>     accomplishments by about 86% even if all the other rules were the
>>     same.
>>      
>>     *BOB *
>>     > From: "Kent & Sue Haunschild" kentsue at cox.net
>>     <mailto:kentsue at cox.net>
>>
>>     >
>>     > I'm not sure it's the hex orientation that is to blame. Did a
>>     little rail hex counting. The distance to Kiev and Minsk
>>     >is the same in both editions.
>>     ored
>>
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Chuck Sutherland
Technology Specialist
Gamewood, Inc.
116 South Ridge Street
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