[WarInEur] RE: map grid
Chuck Sutherland
csutherland at gamewoodinc.com
Thu Oct 25 17:00:49 EDT 2007
I hope I'm not duplicating this, but what options are you using for the
games in question?
sgminfo wrote:
> Well on the Eastern front in two games tested so far things are a bit
> of a knife edge, possibly very historical. The Germans have chopped
> the Soviets to bits, as the Soviets have faught (and bled themselves
> white) delaying and struggling to the outskirts of Moscow. Winter is
> about to strike.
>
> Now most theoretical pundits of this situation have considered that
> the shambolic state of the Axis outside moscow, attritioned almost to
> a standstill means they are like lambs to the slaughter, necks
> stretched out on the block, awaiting winter's icy touch.
>
> But the reality is somewhat different. The Soviet forces are in every
> bit as bad a state. if not worse, the veterans dying in their tracks
> after endless retreats, and the new forces appearing, mere paper
> shells of what they could have been, and in no real condition to deal
> the coup de grace either. It will be interesting to se what transpires
> over the next few weeks...
>
> I have several games, all of which seem to be reflecting this point
> and balance, so this may be a generalised situation.
> It holdstheprospect oftheSpring of 1942bein oneof recuperation and
> furious rehabilitation of enough units to start the German summer
> offensive, which may be exactly what thedoctor ordered in solving the
> 1942 ww1 stule bloodbaths we normally siffer...
>
>
>
> -|steve|-
>
>
>
> Kent & Sue Haunschild wrote:
>> Bob, I think that the part that concerns me is the rail hexes because
>> ultimately, supply cannot advance any faster than the rail head. I
>> can live with the hex orientation because while it does have a bias,
>> the Axis supply range was increased from 6 to 10 and the Soviet's
>> from 4 to 6. So the hex bias is sort of factored in to the second
>> edition.
>>
>> The biggest change as you have pointed out is the inability to
>> convert hexes during Mud and a rail net which is not only greatly
>> reduced, but has been gerimandered to actually increase the number of
>> rail hexes that need to be repaired.
>>
>> SPI designed the MSU to compensate for this but I think the concept
>> was inadequately game tested because their use guaranteed that the
>> Axis could reach Moscow in supply in 41. That ugly reality is what
>> gave us the no chaining of MSU errata rules. Unfortunately, I think
>> that was an over kill.
>>
>> Maybe the prodcution cost should have been doubled to reduce the
>> number that could be built or the supply range of sequential MSU's
>> reduced, or the political points cost for Moscow reduced because its
>> capture pretty much guarantees that the Turks and Spainards are going
>> to enter the game on the Axis side. But eliminating chaining would
>> not have been my first choice.
>>
>> Whatever choice players want to experiment with is possible in a
>> board game. In the computer game once you click on the first winter
>> effects and eliminate chaining, then the Germans have no chance of
>> knocking the Soviets out of the game.
>>
>> Steve's attrition option is meant to be played with chaining allowed,
>> but the MSU is subject to attrition and as it is attrited the supply
>> range drops so you can't move them continuously but have to stop and
>> allow them to recover. It will be interesting to see how this
>> affects the flow of the game.
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> *From:* Wardall Clark <mailto:baseballnut570 at hotmail.com>
>> *To:* warineur at mailman.halisp.net
>> <mailto:warineur at mailman.halisp.net>
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, October 24, 2007 1:36 AM
>> *Subject:* [WarInEur] RE: map grid
>>
>> A hex grid cannot treat travel in all 8 compass points the same .
>> Every grid has favored and non-favored
>> directions of counting. Two points which are the same distance
>> from a third point "as the crow flies" can
>> be different number of hexes away from that third point. In one,
>> the distance in Km divided by 33
>> equals the number of hexes it takes to move from one to the
>> other, whereas the other distance in
>> hexes is greater than the crow flies distance divided by 33 Km.
>>
>> In first edition WitE the least favored directions were northward
>> and southward. In WIE the least-favored
>> directions are Westward and eastward. The direction from Kiev to
>> Minsk on the WIE mapboard is a
>> favored direction while the direction from Moscow to Minsk is a
>> non-favored one. Kiev is Moscow is also
>> favored. If you trace this exact same triangle of cities in the
>> 1st edition map the dimensions in hexes
>> come out different even though the map scale is unchanged.
>>
>> Given that Germans are driving pretty much due Eastward they have
>> 12% farther to travel in 1st edition
>> WitE than in WIE. By the same reasoning, supply tends to fall
>> behind its historical and 1st edition
>> accomplishments by about 86% even if all the other rules were the
>> same.
>>
>> *BOB *
>> > From: "Kent & Sue Haunschild" kentsue at cox.net
>> <mailto:kentsue at cox.net>
>>
>> >
>> > I'm not sure it's the hex orientation that is to blame. Did a
>> little rail hex counting. The distance to Kiev and Minsk
>> >is the same in both editions.
>> ored
>>
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Chuck Sutherland
Technology Specialist
Gamewood, Inc.
116 South Ridge Street
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