FW: [WarInEur] pockets and break outs.

[Jim Martin]

Sorry, forgot to include all...

------ Forwarded Message
From: Jim Martin <sanjac at mac.com>
Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2007 22:40:49 +1000
To: sgminfo <sgminfo at aol.com>
Conversation: [WarInEur] pockets and break outs.
Subject: Re: [WarInEur] pockets and break outs.

Hello All,

I don't post much, but I do like this idea, so I'll present my thoughts on
this.  It shouldn't require too much additional coding and should keep the
general flavor of the game.

On the first turn a unit is out of supply and has no line of communication,
it is pointed out by the computer.  The player must then decide if those
units will hunker down and wait for relief by units outside the pocket (e.g.
American 101st at Bastogne) , or attempt to break out on their own or in
conjunction with units outside the pocket.  This is a one-time decision for
that particular encirclement that must be made right away.  If they hunker
down, they are treated the way they currently are - OOS.

If they decide they will attempt a breakout, then they remain at full
strength for that one turn - and maybe even be allowed a one hex movement
from friendly occupied hex to friendly occupied hex (even if ZOCs would
normally prevent such movement) to prepare for the battle.  After the turn
ends, if the units are in supply (and have an LOC), then it was a successful
breakout and they suffer no losses outside the normal combat results.  If
they fail to break out, they are removed from play (not just flipped over)
and the slow return to the build pool can be implemented.  All units within
the encirclement need to be affected by the results.  This would ensure
total commitment to the breakout by all available forces and would prevent
someone from trying to breakout risking only some of the forces while the
remainder choose the more conservative hunker down option.

To me, this would make sense.  The units, having just been surrounded, still
have their supply for a limited time.  They have a choice - burn it all up
in a major do or die breakout push or they ration the supplies out preparing
for a long siege by the enemy.  The breakout attempt would have to be during
the first turn of encirclement or their supplies would be limited and the
enemy would have had a chance to improve their positions and interdict
movement of the surrounded forces.

Jim


> From: sgminfo <sgminfo at aol.com>
> Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 17:19:10 +0100
> To: Chuck Sutherland <csutherland at gamewoodinc.com>
> Subject: Re: [WarInEur] pockets and break outs.
> 
> Yes I too like the thought of abandoning the Aex oos, but it is a huge
> step, and is not backed by any experimental evidence as to whether it
> might ve potentially destablising.
> 
> As an option it is enticining, all the more so as the option is
> effectively closing off a code loop for the oos situation.
> But one must be very careful about departing too far from the existing
> script.
> 
> this is fine so long as we don't stray, ending up with needing to
> reinvent something, involving a lengthy code revamp that wrecks schedules.
> And especialy imparting a feel to the game that means we are really
> playing something that is not WIE. It must keep the flavour, and tone,
> so that veterans can adapt and take to the smulation, feeling
> comfortable with it in a still fully familiar format.
> 
> 
> If  people feel it is worthwhile, then it might be possible to dabble in
> it and add the option, but strictly as an option.
> The game is littered with endless possibilities, and, coming downto the
> wire, we must not lose sight of the main prize...
> 
> getting it back on the shelves..
> 
> -|steve|-
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Chuck Sutherland wrote:
>> That is an execellent idea, I like the temporary removal of units from
>> building because they died while surrounded. But the AEX for OOS
>> attacks should be done away with so that you can attack out!
>> 
>> sgminfo wrote:
>>> One rule we did find useful in the classic board game was as follows...
>>> 
>>> Units that were destroyed OOC, were not returned to the unbuilt
>>> counter pool in production, they were removed and returned to the
>>> box. I.E. They (the Kgs)could not be rebuilt. These units were
>>> recycled, at the rate of 1division per cycle, until all divisions
>>> removed from play this way were returned to the unbuilt production pool.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Thus there was a more damaging effect on the OB if you allowed your
>>> forces to be cut to ribbons and removed from the ob through
>>> encirclement.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> The Soviets recycled at the rate of 3 divisions or 1 corps....
>>> 
>>> Thus the desasters in Tunis and on the Volga served to seriously dent
>>> the OB, and only gradually could be made good...
>>> 
>>> -|steve|-
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> WarInEur mailing list
>>> WarInEur at mailman.halisp.net
>>> http://mailman.halisp.net/mailman/listinfo/warineur
>> 
>> 
> 
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