[WarInEur] RE: WarInEur Digest, Vol 39, Issue 14

[Wardall Clark]

The stalingrad situation is complicated by the intervention of high command authority. 
1) the Moment the trap closed, the 6th Army asked for permission to redeploy for a breakout to
resume communications/supply. 
  a) permission was tentatively granted provided that 6th army  give up no ground. In WIE, this isn't
a big deal since ground can only be surrendered in 33 Kilometer chunks. Von Paulus can obey the 
no retreat requirement by leaving single KG's on the eastern(stalingrad/Volga) front and moving
any full strength units westward to attack The Stalin grad pocket was so big that the middle was not 
under Soviet ZOC so Paulus would have been able to reposition to break the Soviets ring. 
b) ITRW, 6th Army lacked the Combat effectiveness to comply with Hitler's requirements so no immediate
effort was made.  
2) Later, after the Soviets had a double ring in place, the 57th panzer corp tried and failed to break through
in the only full out effort that was made. In WIE, we have the problem that the double line prevents 
7th army from effecting 57th corps' combat odds and vice versa. Van Paulus knew that to make the attempt would 
exhaust his fuel supplies and thus render his mechanized battalions unfit for further combat. He would have
KG'ed his remaining "full strength" divisions to no purpose since 57th would still lose its battle.  
       ITRW, by e had to defend in two directions at once and that could have been enough to let a temporary lne 
of supply be reestablished.
In WIE, any BG or unit without a BG that finds itself cut off from supply by more than a single hex of ZOC 
is as good as dead unless relieved, IRW, the goal was to salvage as many BG's from the full strength units and as many personnel points from tjhe dying BG as possible so as to facilitate rebuilding the units Hence  the goal of extricating 6th army was more akin to a Dunkirk situation than anything else.  
    a) Perhaps if Hitler had been a WIE player he would have realized how ultimately untenable 6th Army's position was. 
While retreat from stalingrad would lessen his prestige, defeat was inevitable so choosing not to have an evacuation is
just plain crazy. It was like leaving the BEF in france for the sake of holding a foothold on the continent, rather than saying
I can find a better way to use those troups somewhere else.
   b) on the other hand, If he was used to playing WE 1st edition then 6th Army's (non-attritioned) Full strength 
divisions would be able to "stay in place till Easter" simply by not bothering to try to break out. (they defend at full
strength when out of communications, which makes attacking then a very dicey prospect for the soviets.)
What battles like the Caulren and the Falaise pocket should be doing is flipping full strength units like mad as they 
fight their way free. The problem in WIE is that OOS units in ZOCs are prohibited from Shifting around to deploy 
properly for a breakout attempt. They don't have enough movement points. Maybe units which are OOS
should be allowed to trade combat points for movement points so as to go directly from ZOC to ZOC. 
BOB
 From: sgminfo <sgminfo at aol.com>> > Given all that, the OOS attacker is already subject to attrition at an > > increased rate and so the stack losses from the original> > rules seem to be accounted for already.  > With attrition, does the AEX rule when oos need to be implemented?> > Bearing in mind the granularity of the weekly turn system.----> i.e. That the defender can be so effectively unhorsed in the enemy's > turn that he is unable to reply in his own? ----------My gut reaction is 
to say this looks good...but when you examine the > other side of the coin, 
nothing looks to simple as it first appears...> > > The obvious parallel is in the desert, where a good littl'un catches the > big guy with the sucker punch..., or vice versa...> > The relative strength of the 10-8 and 8-8 rendered basket cases by the > manoeuvre which puts them oos.> > On the face of it, the Cauldron battles don't look like they can be > replicated....> > But then again in Russia, the Germans ITRW broke out of many an > encirclement threatened or achieved. In the game, the moment the > pincers close at Kalach, 6th Army is doomed, as is any encircled force. > They all become immediately effete and immobile (relatively) and are > forced to rely upon outside help from afar to rescue them. Can we > replicate the Korsun pocket?> But then, DAK might be invincible in such circumstances, maneuver > counting for little in those cases where you try to wrong foot the opponent.> I do not see clearly down this road....> > > I might suggest that we have the option of the automatic exchange when > oos as an option, an option that we can turn on and off to see whether > the operational battles, are enhanced or distorted by this...> > It might turn out to be a fruitful avenue of experimentation for those > playing the finished product.....and quite instructive...> > > -|steve|-
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