[WarInEur] strategic surprise rule - more lipstick for the piggy! ; )

[srm]

yep,  forget the lipstick, fellas. that pig won't fly.

 see the game as what it is: a game,an abstraction
with many flaws, just like chess. play it. leave WWII
simulation for the CIA and NSA and their
supercomputers and baseball fans.

Sergio

--- Chuck Sutherland <csutherland at gamewoodinc.com>
wrote:

> Oh its actually pretty easy, just allow the Russians
> to build units each 
> turn instead of every four turns and lower the
> number of units built 
> except for 1-3 and 1-4s to 1. Historically during
> the active campaign 
> the Russians lost between 3.5 and 4 million men in
> 41. Based on the 
> starting OOB and the militia that is added, you have
> to be able to 
> produce about 320-350 1-4 to match the manpower on
> the eastern front. So 
> in about 4 production cycles you need about 20
> training centers pushing 
> out 1-4s if you were using the normal production
> rules.
> 
> Thus my conclusion is the Russian 1-4 cannon fodder
> production is way 
> down, the reason is to compensate for the lack of
> mobility and the AEX 
> OOS supply effects.
> 
> Every suggestion that has been talked about, is a
> bandage of sorts for 
> the flaw in the combat system and the lack of mobile
> combat that is 
> partially made up by parachute units. So the current
> combat system has 
> the Paras as the most important ground unit for
> taking territory instead 
> of armor, because armor can be stopped by 3 points
> worth of defenders or 
> less if there is a river involved!
> 
> So we can apply a small bandage here and there like
> was done originally 
> aka lower then historical Russian production, over
> modeled parachute 
> effects and continue to past and plaster adding
> additional lipstick to 
> the pig in the hopes that something pretty will
> finally show up, or you 
> can bite the bullet and take apart the combat system
> and restructure it 
> so that is models historical results.
> 
> Right now even with surprise, you can't model France
> 1940, you can't 
> model Russia 1941 on, and because France is broken
> you can't model North 
> Africa because Sealion is not as big a threat as it
> would be in middle 
> of summer 1940.
> 
> Unless you can drop France in six weeks and take
> Minsk on turn one of 
> Barbarossa you have not modeled the historical
> abilities of the German 
> army in early WWII! Does the optional rule allow
> this to take place????
> 
> 
> 
> sgminfo wrote:
> > Given that Chuck points out the 'hazards in terms
> of implementation, 
> > i.e. additional work on ob and counter sets,
> nothing need be said on 
> > that poont...but a consideration that might be
> useful in the 
> > implementation of such a rule.
> >
> > Painting the extreme case,
> >
> > the penetration and exploitation of a line,
> without the defender being 
> > able to physically react because of the strictures
> of the game turn 
> > (alternate phase sequencing)...one might consider
> reaction movement, 
> > or a variation thereto.
> >
> > i.e. The Arnhem situation, where airborne land and
> XXX corps  double 
> > match throught the German line, and past a SS
> Panzer division, through 
> > Zocs and into a link up...
> > Instead of the German division being totally
> passive, and the zoc 
> > being totally fluid, one might have the ability to
> enmesh someone in a 
> > zoc, such that they have to stop...
> >
> > This might thereby allow well found and rested
> reserves to really act 
> > as a 'firebrigade ' style unit as operational
> reserves tend to do...
> >
> > There might be a trigger die roll, based on the
> strength (attrition) 
> > and training (crt number) of the units in reserve,
> that modify the 
> > capabilities...so an Italian 1-4 on crt 4 might
> not have reaction 
> > abilities, or reaction abilities are resytricted
> to mechanised and or 
> > elite units...
> >
> > But it is an idea to think about...
> >
> > The key element is allowing the defender not to be
> so unhinged (given 
> > a moderately balanced situation), that he is in
> defeat before he can 
> > roll with the blow and punch back...
> >
> >
> > -|steve|-
> >
> > Don Lazov wrote:
> >> Chuck,
> >>  
> >> Are your combat on the move ideas similar to OCS
> during movement 
> >> overruns?
> >>  
> >> For those not in the know, in OCS during your
> movement phase (or the 
> >> enemy's reaction movement phase) you may overrun
> units, in this sense 
> >> overrun is just like combat but you do it in the
> movement phase by 
> >> expending MP to overrun a hex, you may not even
> take the hex, but 
> >> cause losses (to both your self and his forces).
> >>  
> >> Again in OCS the only units that have a ZOC are
> units in Combat mode.
> >>  
> >>  
> >> -- 
> >> Don Lazov
> >> ~Best Regards
> >>  
> >
> 
> 
> -- 
> Chuck Sutherland
> Technology Specialist
> Gamewood, Inc.
> 116 South Ridge Street
> Danville, VA 24541
> (434) 799-8407 x218
> 
> _______________________________________________
> WarInEur mailing list
> WarInEur at mailman.halisp.net
> http://mailman.halisp.net/mailman/listinfo/warineur
> 



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