[WarInEur] strategic surprise rule.
Chuck Sutherland
csutherland at gamewoodinc.com
Fri Nov 9 10:36:21 EST 2007
Somewhat, except its a single stack like used in overruns in WIE except
4 units can attack instead of the 3. Costs are 2mp for the attack plus
COT, and ZOC if no other AOMs are done with that stack. So a 8mp stack
could attack 2 times in each movement phase along with normal combat.
However to do this would require a total rework of the Russian OOB and
production abilities, assuming OOS attacks were also altered to do away
with the AEX auto results.
The Russians are going to need about 3 to 4 times their current infantry
production to compensate for needing to give up troops as speed bump.
Don Lazov wrote:
> Chuck,
>
> Are your combat on the move ideas similar to OCS during movement overruns?
>
> For those not in the know, in OCS during your movement phase (or the
> enemy's reaction movement phase) you may overrun units, in this sense
> overrun is just like combat but you do it in the movement phase by
> expending MP to overrun a hex, you may not even take the hex, but
> cause losses (to both your self and his forces).
>
> Again in OCS the only units that have a ZOC are units in Combat mode.
>
>
> --
> Don Lazov
> ~Best Regards
>
>
> -------------- Original message --------------
> From: Chuck Sutherland <csutherland at gamewoodinc.com>
>
> > The Strategic suprise thread is just another sign to me that
> allowing
> > combat during movement is still the real way to solve all if the
> combat
> > issues! Its just to radical an idea for now, so I will wait it
> out! ;)
> >
> > Wardall Clark wrote:
> > > The KC addendums offer a very clunky and very drastic rule,
> that I
> > > have never heard anyone playing
> > > in CWIE; The rule addressed the fact that a certain times during
> > > WWII, events developed
> > > so fast that operational initiative passed so completely to
> one side
> > > that the other side's high command
> > > was reduced temporarily to the role of observer for roughly a
> week.
> > >
> > > The rule was simplicity itself . At the start of the initial
> movement
> > > phase a player can declares that he
> > > will utilize one of his Strategic surprise options that turn.
> At the
> > > conclusion of his mechanized phase,
> > > the phasing player restarts his turn. The Axis may do this six
> times
> > > throughout the game. The Russians
> > > have three such opportunities and the Allies have three. Only one
> > > option may be used per cycle,and
> > > the option applies only units within the designated Air Front.
> > >
> > >
> > > This nicely simulates the major strategic surprises of the war by
> > > making possible tearing of enormous
> > > holes in the opponent's defensive lines. Unfortunately, it
> > > also allowed violations of national capacity
> > > rules such as railroad and sea transport limits. It has always
> seemed
> > > to me that this aspect of the
> > > double turn would have to be clarified/proscribed in some way.
> > >
> > > I note that players of WIE keep complaining that echeloned
> defenses
> > > keep frustrating their blitzkrieg
> > > efforts and making the game look like WWI. In the RW, such
> > > deployments nearly always succeeded,
> > > when ample forces were available and the defenders high
> command was
> > > able to discern the point of
> > > attack. It failed when either (1) the defender had insufficient
> > > reserves or (2) the high command was
> > > unable to figure out quickly enough which rear area units to
> reinforce.
> > >
> > > The strategic surprise rule speaks to the second of these. By
> letting
> > > one side move&attack&mech move
> > > and then do this a second time before the other side moves
> again, The
> > > classic double combat line can be
> > > breached and penetrated in a single week. Great encirclements
> become
> > > possible again, and for weeks
> > > and possibly even months afterwards the user of the option
> will be
> > > able to dictate the action as his
> > > opponent scrambles to reconstruct his defenses well behind the
> > > original position.
> > >
> > > BOB
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> > >
> > > > Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2007 08:42:30 -0500
> > > > From: warineur-request at mailman.halisp.net
> > > > Subject: WarInEur Digest, Vol 40, Issue 7
> > > > To: warineur at mailman.halisp.net
> > > >
> > > > Send WarInEur mailing list submissions to
> > > > warineur at mailman.halisp.net
> > > >
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> > > > http://mailman.halisp.net/mailman/listinfo/warineur
> > > > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
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> > > >
> > > > You can reach the person managing the list at
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> > > >
> > > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more
> specific
> > > > than "Re: Contents of WarInEur digest..."
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Today's Topics:
> > > >
> > > > 1. Re: The Sergio option (game-beating up on Nazis
> issalubrious)
> > > > (Kent & Sue Haunschild)
> > > > 2. Lets stop the Political spinning before it goes any further!
> > > > (Chuck Sutherland)
> > > > 3. Re: ZOCs (Kent & Sue Haunschild)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ----------------------
> ------------------------------------------------
> > > >
> > > > Message: 1
> > > > Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2007 07:26:00 -0600
> > > > From: "Kent & Sue Haunschild"
> > > > Subject: Re: [WarInEur] The Sergio option (game-beating up
> on Nazis
> > > > issalubrious)
> > > > To: "srm" ,
> > > > Message-ID: <000901c82078$92a17bc0$6401a8c0 at kent839ba1def4>
> > > > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> > > > reply-type=original
> > > >
> > > > Gosh and Golly! I would never have guessed that you were a
> historical
> > > > revisionist and brought your political philosophy into rules
> > > > interpretations. I bet your students receive a daily dose of
> your
> > > > political views carefully inserted into the official
> curriculum also.
> &g t; > >
> > > > You have obviously come away with a different lesson learned
> from
> > > WWII than
> > > > I did. I see it as the folly of appeasement. You see it as
> evidence
> > > of a
> > > > plot by the rich capitalists to get still richer.
> > > >
> > > > By the way, if this activity is unhealthy, why do you
> participate?
> > > >
> > > > Kent
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "srm"
> > > > To:
> > > > Sent: Monday, November 05, 2007 11:17 PM
> > > > Subject: Re: [WarInEur] The Sergio option (game-beating up
> on Nazis
> > > > issalubrious)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Hansen, the youth of today are being educated
> > > > > regardless of what i say or do. After all, many of
> > > > & gt; their parents voted for Bush. Twice.
> > > > >
> > > > > And please recall that apostrophes indicate
> > > > > possession, not plural. Nazis. Not " Nazi's" for
> > > > > plural.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > As for this goodness thing? The US Empire (and
> > > > > Argentina, Switzerland,and Sweden-- all for less than
> > > > > "noble" reasons) made scads of money off the death and
> > > > > mayhem of WWII (a world record!) if you want to make a
> > > > > point about "goodness" in war.
> > > > >
> > > > > So, all war sucks. Hitler was not "mad", either. He
> > > > > was an angry hateful man who took advantage of a
> > > > > corrupt geopolitical situation.
> > > > >
> > > > > WWII is thankfully over. Revisiting the worst of a bad
> > > &g t; > war fighting lot (the Nazis, as opposed to the other
> > > > > "noble" warriors) is not psychologically healthy, in
> > > > > my opinion.
> > > > >
> > > > > --- Hansen wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >> Sergio writes:
> > > > >>
> > > > >> ...
> > > > >>
> > > > >> today's kids aren't interested in WWII "Give the
> > > > >> Whermacht a break" revisionism because what they do
> > > > >> glean out of WWII --however unfair that may sound--
> > > > >> is
> > > > >> that the Axis were bad and deserved to lose, period.
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >> ...
> > > > >>
> > > > >> A strategic wargame has a definite built-in
> > > > >> favo ritism, and kids today just do not favor the
> > > > >> nazi/fascists in WWII.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> ...
> > > > >>
> > > > >> I respond:
> > > > >>
> > > > >> It's a fair cop. The Nazi's were evil and it's a
> > > > >> good thing they lost. So I
> > > > >> propose a Sergio option for CWIE2.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> 1) All allies strength is increased by a factor of
> > > > >> 10. Because their hearts
> > > > >> are pure and they fight with the strength of 10.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> 2) The axis can only lose political points, not gain
> > > > >> them. To let the axis
> > > > >> gain political points is to imply that there was
> > > > >> some good in them.
> > > > >> *> > > >> 3) Partisans can now be placed up to the limit of
> > > > >> available units every
> > > > >> turn, regardless of garrisons. Partisans will
> > > > >> initially be placed as a
> > > > >> cadre. A roll of 1 changes them to a (1)-1 unit. A
> > > > >> subsequent roll of 1
> > > > >> changes them to a unit from the nation's army.
> > > > >> Because we know that all
> > > > >> people resisted the Nazi's in all occupied
> > > > >> territories to the fullest extend
> > > > >> humanly possible all the time.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> 4) The Hitler was a mad man rule implies that he
> > > > >> must interfere with troop
> > > > >> movements periodically. '39-'40 - No rolls, '41 roll
> > > > >> of 1, '42 roll of 1 or
> > > > >> 2, '43 roll of 1, 2 or 3, '44 roll of 1,2,3 or 4,
> > > > >> '45 any roll but 6. Every
> > > > >> turn the dice is rolled. If the number comes up, the
> > > > >> all German troops in
> > > > >> enemy ZOC can not retreat or move except into hexes
> > > > >> controlled by the enemy.
> > > > >> This is the stand or die rule.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> 5) If the German player uses loot production points,
> > > > >> then random German
> > > > >> units will disappear as the heroic slave labor will
> > > > >> sabotage the weapons
> > > > >> produced, rendering the Nazi's helpless.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> 6) Allied production is doubled as the allies deploy
> > > > >> their secret weapon,
> > > > >> 'Rosie the riveter' who is able to turn out ships
> > > > >> planes and tanks 24/7
> > > > >> while leaving her children in the government
> > > > >> supplied day care.
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >> With the Sergio option, it may not be a balanced
> > > > >> game, but we will pull in
> > > > >> the youth crowd. No more will their minds be tempted
> > > > >> to think about how
> > > > >> close things could have been to the allies losing,
> > > > >> they will be secure in
> > > > >> knowing that the Nazi's are bad and thus deserved to
> > > > >> lose. And I am sure you
> > > > >> will see that with this option, what the Nazi's
> > > > >> deserve will be what they
> > > > >> get.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Isn't it nice to know that the youth of today are
> > > > >> receiving such a fine
> > > > >> education that they do not question the linking of
> > > > >> 'badness' and 'deserving
> > > > >> to lose'? That should set them up for anything in
> > > > >> the future.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> _______________________________________________
> > > > >> WarInEur mailing list
> > > > >> WarInEur at mailman.halisp.net
> > > > >> http://mailman.halisp.net/mailman/listinfo/warineur
> > > > >>
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > __________________________________________________
> > > > > Do You Yahoo!?
> > > > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection
> around
> > > > > http://mail.yahoo.com
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > WarInEur mailing list
> > > > > WarInEur at mailman.halisp.net
> > > > > http://mailman.halisp.net/mailman/listinfo/warineur
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ------------------------------
> > > >
> > > > Message: 2
> > > > Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2007 08:34:30 -0500
> > > > From: Chuck Sutherland
> > > > Subject: [WarInEur] Lets stop the Political spinning before
> it goes
> > > > any further!
> > > > To: Kent & Sue Haunschild
> > > > Cc: warineur at mailman.halisp.net
> > > > Message-ID: <47306D66.9010703 at gamewoodinc.com>
> > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
> > > >
> > > > Anyone who wants to talk politics e tc lets take it to
> private emails,
> > > > PLEASE!!!! I did!!
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Kent & Sue Haunschild wrote:
> > > > > Gosh and Golly! I would never have guessed that you were a
> historical
> > > > > revisionist and brought your political philosophy into rules
> > > > > interpretations. I bet your students receive a daily dose
> of your
> > > > > political views carefully inserted into the official
> curriculum also.
> > > > >
> > > > > You have obviously come away with a different lesson
> learned from
> > > WWII
> > > > > than I did. I see it as the folly of appeasement. You see
> it as
> > > > > evidence of a plot by the rich capitalists to get still
> richer.
> > > > >
> > > > > By the way, if this activity is unhealthy, why do you
> participate?
> > > > >
> > > > > ; Kent
> > > > >
> > > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "srm"
> > > > > To:
> > > > > Sent: Monday, November 05, 2007 11:17 PM
> > > > > Subject: Re: [WarInEur] The Sergio option (game-beating up
> on Nazis
> > > > > issalubrious)
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >> Hansen, the youth of today are being educated
> > > > >> regardless of what i say or do. After all, many of
> > > > >> their parents voted for Bush. Twice.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> And please recall that apostrophes indicate
> > > > >> possession, not plural. Nazis. Not " Nazi's" for
> > > > >> plural.
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >> As for this goodness thing? The US Empire (and
> > > > & gt;> Argentina, Switzerland,and Sweden-- all for less than
> > > > >> "noble" reasons) made scads of money off the death and
> > > > >> mayhem of WWII (a world record!) if you want to make a
> > > > >> point about "goodness" in war.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> So, all war sucks. Hitler was not "mad", either. He
> > > > >> was an angry hateful man who took advantage of a
> > > > >> corrupt geopolitical situation.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> WWII is thankfully over. Revisiting the worst of a bad
> > > > >> war fighting lot (the Nazis, as opposed to the other
> > > > >> "noble" warriors) is not psychologically healthy, in
> > > > >> my opinion.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> --- Hansen wrote:
> > > > >>
> > > > ; >>> Sergio writes:
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> ...
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> today's kids aren't interested in WWII "Give the
> > > > >>> Whermacht a break" revisionism because what they do
> > > > >>> glean out of WWII --however unfair that may sound--
> > > > >>> is
> > > > >>> that the Axis were bad and deserved to lose, period.
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> ...
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> A strategic wargame has a definite built-in
> > > > >>> favoritism, and kids today just do not favor the
> > > > >>> nazi/fascists in WWII.
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> ...
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> I respond:
> > & gt; > >>>
> > > > >>> It's a fair cop. The Nazi's were evil and it's a
> > > > >>> good thing they lost. So I
> > > > >>> propose a Sergio option for CWIE2.
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> 1) All allies strength is increased by a factor of
> > > > >>> 10. Because their hearts
> > > > >>> are pure and they fight with the strength of 10.
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> 2) The axis can only lose political points, not gain
> > > > >>> them. To let the axis
> > > > >>> gain political points is to imply that there was
> > > > >>> some good in them.
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> 3) Partisans can now be placed up to the limit of
> > > > >>> available units every
> > > > >>> turn, regar dless of garrisons. Partisans will
> > > > >>> initially be placed as a
> > > > >>> cadre. A roll of 1 changes them to a (1)-1 unit. A
> > > > >>> subsequent roll of 1
> > > > >>> changes them to a unit from the nation's army.
> > > > >>> Because we know that all
> > > > >>> people resisted the Nazi's in all occupied
> > > > >>> territories to the fullest extend
> > > > >>> humanly possible all the time.
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> 4) The Hitler was a mad man rule implies that he
> > > > >>> must interfere with troop
> > > > >>> movements periodically. '39-'40 - No rolls, '41 roll
> > > > >>> of 1, '42 roll of 1 or
> > > > >>> 2, '43 roll of 1, 2 or 3, '44 roll of 1,2,3 or 4,
> > > > >>> '45 any roll but 6. Every
> > > > >>> turn the dice is rolled. If the number comes up, the
> > > > >>> all German troops in
> > > > >>> enemy ZOC can not retreat or move except into hexes
> > > > >>> controlled by the enemy.
> > > > >>> This is the stand or die rule.
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> 5) If the German player uses loot production points,
> > > > >>> then random German
> > > > >>> units will disappear as the heroic slave labor will
> > > > >>> sabotage the weapons
> > > > >>> produced, rendering the Nazi's helpless.
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> 6) Allied production is doubled as the allies deploy
> > > > >>> their secret weapon,
> > > > >>> 'Rosie the riveter' who is able to turn out ships < BR>>
> > > >>> planes and tanks 24/7
> > > > >>> while leaving her children in the government
> > > > >>> supplied day care.
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> With the Sergio option, it may not be a balanced
> > > > >>> game, but we will pull in
> > > > >>> the youth crowd. No more will their minds be tempted
> > > > >>> to think about how
> > > > >>> close things could have been to the allies losing,
> > > > >>> they will be secure in
> > > > >>> knowing that the Nazi's are bad and thus deserved to
> > > > >>> lose. And I am sure you
> > > > >>> will see that with this option, what the Nazi's
> > > > >>> deserve will be what they
> > > > >>> get.
> > > > > ;>>
> > > > >>> Isn't it nice to know that the youth of today are
> > > > >>> receiving such a fine
> > > > >>> education that they do not question the linking of
> > > > >>> 'badness' and 'deserving
> > > > >>> to lose'? That should set them up for anything in
> > > > >>> the future.
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> _______________________________________________
> > > > >>> WarInEur mailing list
> > > > >>> WarInEur at mailman.halisp.net
> > > > >>> http://mailman.halisp.net/mailman/listinfo/warineur
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >> __________________________________________________
> > > > >> Do You Yahoo!?
> > > > >> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the b est spam protection
> around
> > > > >> http://mail.yahoo.com
> > > > >> _______________________________________________
> > > > >> WarInEur mailing list
> > > > >> WarInEur at mailman.halisp.net
> > > > >> http://mailman.halisp.net/mailman/listinfo/warineur
> > > > >>
> > > > >
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > WarInEur mailing list
> > > > > WarInEur at mailman.halisp.net
> > > > > http://mailman.halisp.net/mailman/listinfo/warineur
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Chuck Sutherland
> > > > Technology Specialist
> > > > Gamewood, Inc.
> > > > 116 South Ridge Street
> > > > Danville, VA 24541
> > > > (434) 799-8407 x218
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > ; > ------------------------------
> > > >
> > > > Message: 3
> > > > Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2007 07:42:26 -0600
> > > > From: "Kent & Sue Haunschild"
> > > > Subject: [WarInEur] Re: ZOCs
> > > > To: "Lawrence Duffield" ,
> > > >
> > > > Message-ID: <001301c8207a$de314910$6401a8c0 at kent839ba1def4>
> > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> > > >
> > > > Lawrence,
> > > >
> > > > I guess I need to quote the rule one again because you seem
> to be
> > > missing the point.
> > > >
> > > > "Allied ZOC do not extend across borders during this
> movement phase."
> > > >
> > > > Notice that the rule does not say "extend into enemy controlled
> > > hexes" and that the word "borders" is pluralized. Meaning that
> t here
> > > is more than one border to consider.
> > > >
> > > > So the rule, as written means exactly what you are try to
> say it
> > > doesn't mean.
> > > >
> > > > During the initial movement phase during the of the
> lowlands: The
> > > French and CW units on the French border do not project a ZOC
> into
> > > Belgium. Belgian units do not project a ZOC into France, the
> > > Netherlands,Luxembourg, or Germany. Dutch units do not project
> a ZOC
> > > into Belgium or Germany.
> > > >
> > > > You may never have played this way, but this is what the
> rules says.
> > > >
> > > > Kent
> > > >
> > > > PS
> > > > As far as following history is concerned I assume that you
> always
> > > voluntarially follow the Dyle Plan even if not required to do
> so by
> > > your opponent because that is what the Allies did. Well no,
> that would
> > > be pro-axis and make it too easy for the Germans to knock
> France out
> > > of the War and decimate the BEF in the process.
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: Lawrence Duffield
> > > > To: warineur at mailman.halisp.net
> > > > Cc: Kent & Sue Haunschild
> > > > Sent: Monday, November 05, 2007 9:54 PM
> > > > Subject: Re: ZOCs
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Nov 5, 2007, at 4:39 PM, Kent & Sue Haunschild wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Proposal already ammended to read during the initial
> movement phase.
> > > >
> > > > SPI rules quoted in another email.
> > > >
> > > > While you might be correct in regard to units retain full
> abilities
> > > unless rules oth ewise direct. This beggers the questions: Are
> the
> > > rules complete and do they cover every situation? SPI designers
> > > answered these by saying no and that common sense must guide
> the players.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Agree
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Applying the common sense rule, it seems to me that if the
> designers
> > > took the time to write rules specifically curtailing the
> abilities of
> > > the major combatants, then these rules should apply equally to
> the
> > > minor combatants who were much less prepared and would be more
> > > restrained in their response than the major participants.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I see no reason why the designers mightn't have noticed that
> > > construing the rule to apply to each combatant in sequence
> within a
> > > turn would make invading Holland, then Belgi um or Holland, then
> > > Belgium, then France unreasonably easy and declined to do so.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > What we have entered is the classic argument of "Original
> Intent"
> > > versus "Strict Construction." I am trying to develope
> universal rules
> > > applicable across the board that seem to be in accordance with
> the
> > > designers intentions and which guide the game into a historic
> pattern.
> > > I also think that the fewer special rules the better.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I'm not seeing an argument FOR original intent. I see one
> > > interpretation that is not privileged against any other
> > > interpretation, and prefer the original rule as written.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I think you are arguing that the rules have a existance
> outside the
> > > game, and that game play m ust conform to the rules even when
> this
> > > results in non-historical outcomes.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > No, I'm arguing that RAW has had the benefit of consistency
> within
> > > the game's history and that experience has shown that
> deviations from
> > > RAW (i.e. Kansas City amendments) have hurt more often than
> helped.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I think this prevents us from learning anything about the
> historical
> > > dynamics of the situation. When we discuss the rules openly
> and are
> > > willing to try to write ones that better model history then I
> think we
> > > all learn something in the process.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Try away. I don't think this one succeeds.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > When we fail to discuss the suggestions to see if the enhance
> > > hi storical play or detract from it and instead immediately label
> > > something as Pro-Axis, or Pro-Soviet, or Pro-Allied then we let
> > > emotions rule our intellect and the whole process suffers.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I didn't "immediately" label it anything. That was done
> after mature
> > > consideration that the proposed change adds nothing to
> historicity and
> > > changes the balance without benefit. And that if a change must
> be made
> > > for the sake of consistency the one I proposed is better in
> every way.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Every board gamer has his list of house rules that he
> insists that
> > > the other player abide by. This is next to impossible to code.
> > > >
> > > > Fully agree, which is why I prefer the game be playable by
> RAW to
> > > the utmost extent possible, even when this violates somebody
> EL SE's
> > > idea of historicity.
> > > >
> > > > -------------- next part --------------
> > > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> > > > URL:
> > >
> >
> http://mailman.halisp.net/pipermail/warineur/attachments/20071106/eba28197/attac
>
> > hment.html
> > > >
> > > > ------------------------------
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
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> > > > WarInEur at mailman.halisp.net
> > > > http://mailman.halisp.net/mailman/listinfo/warineur
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > End of WarInEur Digest, Vol 40, Issue 7
> > > > ***************************************
> > >
> > >
> > >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> > > Peek-a-boo FREE Tricks & Treats for You! Get 'em!
> > >
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>
> > >
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> >
> >
> > --
> > Chuck Sutherland
> > Technology Specialist
> > Gamewood, Inc.
> > 116 South Ridge Street
> > Danville, VA 24541
> > (434) 799-8407 x218
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > WarInEur mailing list
> > WarInEur at mailman.halisp.net
> > http://mailman.halisp.net/mailman/listinfo/warineur *
>
--
Chuck Sutherland
Technology Specialist
Gamewood, Inc.
116 South Ridge Street
Danville, VA 24541
(434) 799-8407 x218
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