[WarInEur] Re: [ Re: ZOCs

[Chuck Sutherland]

No ZOC is a non issue in the East and it only allows the Germans to cut 
off Antwerp and occupy Belgium, and it covers the real issue if lack of 
mobility in the combat and movement systems to simulate blitzkrieg! ;) 
The Eastern Front can be defended easily as ground is something the 
Russians can afford to give up while defending 2 or 3 deep on the 
initial attacks.

Don Lazov wrote:
> Not so fast. I still think that for the scenarios France 40 and 
> Barbarossa 41 the French and Soviet ZOC do not extend across the 
> German borders to reflect operational command failures and surprise. 
> Purhaps it's a kluge SPI (and DG) used, but I think it may be the only 
> way to really reflect the surprise effects of these operations.
>  
> Likewise for the campaigns I think a rule needs to be added along the 
> lines per below, but I still think that on the first turn that the 
> Germans launch an invasion in 39-41 they should get this surprise 
> effect. Perhaps the rule could be extended for the W. Allies in 44 
> when they first attack the continent and to the Russians in 44 when a 
> certain level of political points or German losses have been achived 
> to reflect D-Day and Bagration.
>  
> BTW How about 1943 add to the Soviet OOB 9-8 Tank XXX and 10-8 Mech XX 
> and in 1944 add 11-8 Tank XXX (Gds) and 13-8 Mech XXX Guards (if I 
> asked for 13-8 Guards Tank Corps and 15-8 Guard Mech Corps some would 
> say I was pro-Soviet, but how about 10-6 Soviet Guards Rifle ...)
>  
> That is just my opinion.
>  
> --
> Don Lazov
> ~Best Regards
>  
>
>     -------------- Original message --------------
>     From: "Kent & Sue Haunschild" <kentsue at cox.net>
>
>     > Noble1234 wrote:
>     >
>     > Rule 9.25 (from the rulebook on the DG website)
>     >
>     > "Until the completion of the first Movement Phase triggering the
>     violation
>     > of one country by another, Zones of Control do not extend across
>     border
>     > hexsides. NOTE: Zones of Control do extend across border
>     hexsides for those
>     > countries that are belligerents at the start of a scenario."
>     >
>     > >From this, Kent's first point holds true.? The units of the
>     neutral would
>     > not exert a zone of control across the border until the end of
>     the initial
>     > movement phase of the invasion.
>     >
>     >
>     > Okay! Finally some agreement that ZOC do not extend across any
>     border
>     > hexsides during the Initial Movement pha! se afte r the DOW.
>     >
>     > I believe this is the "gold standard" and allows us to eliminate
>     > reiterations of this in the scenario instructions for France 40 and
>     > Barbarossa, etc. It also, makes rules like DG 46.11 redundent.
>     Currently
>     > it reads:
>     >
>     > DG 46.11
>     >
>     > Finnish deployments are described under the Scenario
>     instructions. While
>     > neutral, Finnish units do not exert a ZOC into adjacent Soviet
>     rail hexes.
>     > When at war, they do.
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     > This implies that, Finnish unit do exert a ZOC into non-Soviet
>     rail hexes.
>     > Which is pretty wierd, since it directly contradicts the
>     previous rule. I
>     > think it is supposed to be a clarification, which should be
>     unnecessary and
>     > can be eliminated as well.
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     > I am all for reducing the size of the rule book.
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     > The only unanswered question is how to handle th! e ZOC f or
>     nations that are
>     > restricted to their national boundaries. Do we say their ZOC
>     never extends
>     > outside the country?
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     > This seems a logical extension of the rules. There are only five
>     countries
>     > that this would apply to (Eire, Yugoslavia, Portugal,
>     Switzerland and Spain
>     > which can only enter Portugal or Gibraltar) and they usually
>     never get
>     > involved in the game, so the impact is either minor or
>     non-existent.
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     > Kent
>     >
>     >
>     >
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>
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-- 
Chuck Sutherland
Technology Specialist
Gamewood, Inc.
116 South Ridge Street
Danville, VA 24541
(434) 799-8407 x218