[WarInEur] Re: [ Re: ZOCs

[Kent & Sue Haunschild]

Nope! I went back and read them (DG living rules).  It's a standard rule applying at all times.  Admititedly, it originated with the KC  group but they didn't get everything wrong.  LOL

Kent

As far as unit tinkering (adding additional units) goes I don't have a problem including them in the game for those who want to use them.  Personally I'd like to see them confined to late 43 and after, but that's just my opinion.


  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Don Lazov 
  To: Kent & Sue Haunschild ; WarinEur at mailman.halisp.net ; noble1234 at aol.com 
  Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2007 2:01 PM
  Subject: Re: [WarInEur] Re: [ Re: ZOCs


  Not so fast. I still think that for the scenarios France 40 and Barbarossa 41 the French and Soviet ZOC do not extend across the German borders to reflect operational command failures and surprise. Purhaps it's a kluge SPI (and DG) used, but I think it may be the only way to really reflect the surprise effects of these operations.

  Likewise for the campaigns I think a rule needs to be added along the lines per below, but I still think that on the first turn that the Germans launch an invasion in 39-41 they should get this surprise effect. Perhaps the rule could be extended for the W. Allies in 44 when they first attack the continent and to the Russians in 44 when a certain level of political points or German losses have been achived to reflect D-Day and Bagration.

  BTW How about 1943 add to the Soviet OOB 9-8 Tank XXX and 10-8 Mech XX and in 1944 add 11-8 Tank XXX (Gds) and 13-8 Mech XXX Guards (if I asked for 13-8 Guards Tank Corps and 15-8 Guard Mech Corps some would say I was pro-Soviet, but how about 10-6 Soviet Guards Rifle ...)

  That is just my opinion.

  --
  Don Lazov 
  ~Best Regards

    -------------- Original message -------------- 
    From: "Kent & Sue Haunschild" <kentsue at cox.net> 

    > Noble1234 wrote: 
    > 
    > Rule 9.25 (from the rulebook on the DG website) 
    > 
    > "Until the completion of the first Movement Phase triggering the violation 
    > of one country by another, Zones of Control do not extend across border 
    > hexsides. NOTE: Zones of Control do extend across border hexsides for those 
    > countries that are belligerents at the start of a scenario." 
    > 
    > >From this, Kent's first point holds true.? The units of the neutral would 
    > not exert a zone of control across the border until the end of the initial 
    > movement phase of the invasion. 
    > 
    > 
    > Okay! Finally some agreement that ZOC do not extend across any border 
    > hexsides during the Initial Movement phase afte r the DOW. 
    > 
    > I believe this is the "gold standard" and allows us to eliminate 
    > reiterations of this in the scenario instructions for France 40 and 
    > Barbarossa, etc. It also, makes rules like DG 46.11 redundent. Currently 
    > it reads: 
    > 
    > DG 46.11 
    > 
    > Finnish deployments are described under the Scenario instructions. While 
    > neutral, Finnish units do not exert a ZOC into adjacent Soviet rail hexes. 
    > When at war, they do. 
    > 
    > 
    > 
    > This implies that, Finnish unit do exert a ZOC into non-Soviet rail hexes. 
    > Which is pretty wierd, since it directly contradicts the previous rule. I 
    > think it is supposed to be a clarification, which should be unnecessary and 
    > can be eliminated as well. 
    > 
    > 
    > 
    > I am all for reducing the size of the rule book. 
    > 
    > 
    > 
    > The only unanswered question is how to handle the ZOC f or nations that are 
    > restricted to their national boundaries. Do we say their ZOC never extends 
    > outside the country? 
    > 
    > 
    > 
    > This seems a logical extension of the rules. There are only five countries 
    > that this would apply to (Eire, Yugoslavia, Portugal, Switzerland and Spain 
    > which can only enter Portugal or Gibraltar) and they usually never get 
    > involved in the game, so the impact is either minor or non-existent. 
    > 
    > 
    > 
    > Kent 
    > 
    > 
    > 
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