[WarInEur] Yugoslavian partisans

[dsl]

An Overrun means that the enemy has come on you with such overwhelming force
(aka 13:1 odds) that the defending unit is quickly rendered totally in
effective in combat. Think US vs Iraqi army in either gulf war. 

As to which is going to result in a larger "partisan cadre"? I think it is
six of one vs half a dozen of the other. Did the overwhelming shock and awe
of the overrun lead you to lose heart to the degree that you wouldn't join
the partisans?

If I remember correctly, the US army guideline was somewhere around a 3-4%
loss and the unit was considered shaken and needing to be withdrawn for
refitting. A 10% loss and the unit was shattered and would likely not be
able to be reconstituted. There were certainly exceptions to these rules
(e.g. 101 and 82 at Bastogne), but that was the guideline. So even in a
'shattered' unit, 90% of the manpower was still there. Now part of this may
be related to the US having a large tail to teeth ratio (lots of people
behind the lines). But if I am remembering at all correctly, the issue isn't
going to be how many dead as far as making up a partisan cadre.

I think a better way of thinking about the Yugoslavian partisans is a
general partisan potential. A few odds and ends in terms of guns, some man
power with training, some units that receive orders aimed towards making
them more effective in a guerilla war (e.g. placement when they die), etc.
As such, it is pretty hard to argue that an overrun unit should be treated
differently from a unit killed in combat.

-----Original Message-----
From: kelvinwstevens at optusnet.com.au [mailto:kelvinwstevens at optusnet.com.au]

Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 3:13 PM
To: Hansen
Cc: warineur at mailman.halisp.net
Subject: Re: [WarInEur] Yugoslavian partisans

What does and over run versus a battle actually mean.

I thought in an overrun the defenders threw down their weapons and threw up
their arms yelling "we're all going to die"  and surrendered or ran off into
the hills. If this is the case the formation of a cadre would be more likely
than after a battle where many would be killed at their posts?




> Hansen <ultrasoundimages at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> 
> Kent:
> 
> The question is should CWIE2 be coded so that a Partisan Cadre is formed
> anytime a  Yugoslavian unit is eliminated?
> 
> John:
> The CWIE 1 rule 23.4 is: "When Yugoslav units are eliminated they are
> replaced with Allied Partisan Cadres.  When Yugoslavia surrenders, all
> remaining units are eliminated and replaced with partisan cadres." The
> implementation is that an overrun doesn't form a cadre. 
> 
> I would tend towards implementing the rule as written (cadre's formed on 
> an
> overrun, combat loss, failed force march or a Yugoslav surrender). I 
> can't
> think of any other way to eliminate a Yugoslav unit, but if there is, 
> have
> that form a cadre also.
> 
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