[WarInEur] Yugoslavian partisans

[Don Lazov]

Hansen,

Your SPI rule quote is incorrect.

It says this:

[31.51] Creation of Yugoslavian Cadres
Whenever a Yugoslavian infantry division or cavalry division is 
eliminated by Axis actions either as a result of combat or because of 
the surrender of Yugoslavia) the counter is flipped over in place to 
form a Yugoslavian Partisan Cadre.

There is no mention in the SPI rule of overrun here. Case in point of 
the "broadness" of the rules.

Now if we go back to the original rule (i.e., War in the East 1st 
Edition) there is no ambiguous rule.

[28.0] OPTIONAL RULE: PARTISANS

GENERAL RULE:

Only Russian infantry and cavalry units may attempt to become partisan 
cadres. Whenever a Russian infantry or cavalry unit is completely 
eliminated anywhere in Russia by any means other than a forced march 
attempt, the Russian Player rolls a die. If a "one" or a "two" is rolled 
(only), a partisan cadre is formed. The Russian Player immediately 
places a partisan cadre marker in the hex where the unit was eliminated. 
At the start of each Russian Player-Turn, the Russian Player may attempt 
to convert any, all or none of his partisan cadres into regular partisan 
units.

PROCEDURE:

To convert a partisan cadre into a partisan unit, the Russian Player 
rolls a die for each cadre he wishes to convert. If a "one" is obtained, 
that cadre is converted; any other result has no effect. Whenever a 
successful conversion is made, the Russian Player flips over the cadre 
marker to reveal a partisan unit.


Hansen wrote:
> Kent:
> However, in the setup instructions the Axis player has 50 divisions that can
> be placed in Yugoslavia.  Once these are placed the Allied player cn place
> the Yugoslavian units in any hex not in an Axis ZOC.  However, it requires
> less than 40 divisions to completely cover Yugoslavia with ZOC so
> theoretically, without even using all of available Axis units they can
> compleatly eliminate any chance of Yugoslavian Partisan Cadre placement. 
>
> John:
> If the Axis is putting 40 divisions in Yugoslavia for garrison (even
> assuming axis minor ally divisions) then the allied player has already
> received their reward. I will gladly trade all Yugoslavian partisan
> possibilities for effectively taking 40 Axis divisions off the map.
>
> Kent:
> 1) SPI 31.51 Creation of Yugoslavian Cadre.
>
> Whenever a Yugoslavian infantry division or cavalry division is eliminated
> by Axis action (either by Overun, as a result of combat, or the surrender of
> Yugoslavia) a Partisan Cadre is placed in the Yugoslavian Cadre Pool.
> Beginning with the Allied turn following Yugoslavian Surrender, the Allied
> player may place one Partisan Cadre per turn in any hex in Yugolsavia not in
> an Axis ZOC.
>
> 2) SPI 73.5 Yugoslavian Partisans
>
> Add The numbers of Cadre, Units, and Divisions listed are to be considered a
> pool.  If the conditions for deployment do not exist at the start of a
> scenario or campaign, they may be deployed one Cadre, Unit, or Division per
> turn until all are placed on the map.
>
> John:
> CWIE I treated an overrun as an absolute elimination. But going back to the
> rules, that seems to be a bug/feature.
>
> 23.4 Yugoslavian Partisans.
>
>      Yugoslavian partisans are controlled by the Allied player, but do not
> count against the limit of 21 partisans that he may place.  When Yugoslav
> units are eliminated they are replaced with Allied Partisan Cadres.  When
> Yugoslavia surrenders, all remaining units are eliminated and replaced with
> partisan cadres.  The Axis player cannot attack Yugoslavian Partisan Cadres
> until the first Yugoslavian Partisan Unit has formed.
>
>      The Allied player converts Yugoslav Partisan Cadres into Partisan Units
> the same as with Allied Partisans, except there is a limit on the number of
> conversion attempts allowed a turn:
>      1939-1940  0 attempts/turn
>      1941       1 attempt/turn
>      1942       2 attempts/turn
>      1943-1945  3 attempt/turn
> Each attempt has a 1/6 chance of success.
>
>      Beginning in 1943 the Allied player may attempt once per turn to
> convert a Yugoslav Partisan Unit into a 2-5 Yugoslav Partisan Division.
> This is done during Reinforcement Phase by clicking on the hex with the
> Partisan Unit in it, and selecting the appropriate option.  The chance of
> success is 1/6.
>
>
> So according to the rules, the regular units should be eliminated at a
> partisan cadre put in place (wherever that may be). No exemptions for
> overrun. I checked the overrun rules and it says the unit doesn't form a
> battle group, but nothing about forming a partisan cadre. I suspect that
> that is the source of the bug/feature.
>
> Yugoslavia has always tended to be a pretty minor front. A few
> Italians/Hungarians keep the rail lines open and don't care about the rest.
> If a partisan division shows up (that could do some real harm), deal with it
> then. 
>
> I would tend to say keep the rules as is and just implement them correctly
> (as opposed to the CWIE I total elimination on an overrun). It makes the '41
> set up of 38 partisans make sense. As to where the units are, yes you will
> get a lot on the plains. But as the Yugoslavian mover, there comes a point
> (relatively quickly in the game) that you leave 3 combat points in Belgrade
> for one last turn, and every other surviving unit force marches for the
> mountains. This gives me plenty of partisan cadre conversion bait up in the
> mountains. 
>
> With attrition, I suspect that the strategies around "mopping" up the random
> partisan cadre will change.
>
> If I was going to make any change in the rules, I would let the Yugoslavian
> player have the choice between returning any eliminated Yugoslavian partisan
> cadre to the board (normal partisan placement rules in effect) or turning a
> partisan cadre into a partisan unit as per the rules above. 
>
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