[Upfront] AFVs and victory conditions

[John Gibbins]

Certainly Bill is noting an ambiguity that deserves attention, not only for F
but for most scenarios. However, though I agree with the sentiments about
hull-down, it should be noted that Terrain that gives such benefits does NOT
affect the fire strength of the subsequent attack once a hit is made, whereas
Woods, Brush, and Buildings (& gullies, I would think) DO add to the armor
strength of the AFV, in effect reducing the attacker's fire strength. I've
always played that such terrain counts for victory, and I certainly think 
Walls & Hills should as well -- so the only think the AFV could not do to
contribute to a victory would be entrenching in open ground!

This issue comes up often enough that an Official Maly Ruling is needed ...
What say you, Andy?

jdg
--- Ron Jacobsen <rljacobsen at apsci.com> wrote:

> Certainly a poorly phrased victory condition that did not take the AFV rules
> in to account.  It can't be satisfied exactly by any AFV, except perhaps one
> that is out of line of sight in a gully, because the strength of an infantry
> fire attack would never be reduced.  Clearly a common sense rule has to be
> made up for the AFV.  
> 
> I agree with Grinner that a hull down AFV certainly counts.  But given that
> AFV's don't benefit from or seek terrain that reduces the "Fire Strength"
> (as distinct from to-hit value) against them, I would be amenable to
> counting a (non-bogged) AFV in any terrain toward the victory conditon.  The
> RC4 victory condition is meant to demonstrate rational but aggressive action
> on the part of the squad.  An AFV at RC4 that is not actually in a
> compromised situation fits that criterion in my book.  
> 
> Probably the best way to decide between the various options is on
> play-balance.
> 
> RL Jacobsen
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: upfront-bounces at mailman.halisp.net
> [mailto:upfront-bounces at mailman.halisp.net] On Behalf Of Bill Gustafson
> Sent: Friday, November 18, 2005 4:29 PM
> To: 'UF Mail List'
> Subject: [Upfront] AFVs and victory conditions
> 
> Hi All,
> 
> Scenario F states:
> 
> "The first player to have four unpinned cards in one or more non-infiltrated
> groups with a "4" range chit in terrain which will reduce the Fire Strength
> of any attack against them is the winner"
> 
> Can the AFV be one of these cards?  I checked the errata but I wasn't 
> quite sure where to look (it wasn't under rule 16 or 2? (the AFV 
> chapter).  Does being hull-down count?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Bill
> 
> -- 
> Bill Gustafson          Res Eng/Sr Comp Spc
> KSRSL/PNSN              Phone: (206)685-8266/(206)543-8928
> Dept. of Earth and Space Sciences
> Box 351310, UW, Seattle, WA  98195-1310
> http://alumnus.caltech.edu/~billg/bill.htm
> 
> 
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